I'm in the process of redoing the body on my 87 f-150. I am on a very limited budget but have lots of time and tools so i am trying to get the body as straight as possible. I have experience with welding panels on and suck and am getting real good with bondo. But i think i want to paint my truck flat black. Is this a bad idea? What should i use black primer and seal it or what?

 

Flat paint from what I understand has very little hardness to it. I would paint it black then buy a flattening agent for the clear coat.

 

good idea ive seen black and other colors with flattening agents and the look good. primer holds moisture to much.

 

Check out this thread. It should answer some of your questions.

Stealth Paint

 

I saw this last night on a hot rod site.

you can add a flattening agent to the clear to make it "suede", I know of some guys who buy John deere paint called "blitz black" and they say it has the perfect sheen, and it is really cheap too......

The guys around here use PPG epoxy primer/sealer and get it tinted black.

You don't want to use a base coat without a clear over the top. There is a flattening agent that can be mixed with the top coat clear which will give the paint a flatter look. The base coats are mixed with a reducer only. They have no hardner in them and some chemicals will take the paint off such as regular laquer thinner. The clear coats have a hardner to keep this from happening. Get a black base coat with a clear top coat and add the flattener. It works really well. Of coarse, the John Deere paint sounds interesting. You can also use a black epoxy primer and that will seal the car so it will never rust(from the outside) and you will always have the flat black look.If you decide later, you want to paint it, you can use a regular primer over the top and paint it. Let me know how it goes.

 

http://www.hendrensfarmtoys.com/tool...20Supplies.htm

I found the blitz black here for 8.21 a quart so that seams pretty cheap. You local shop might have it as well.

 

Would you use a hardener with the blitz black or with a clear coat over the blitz black?

If either (!), which hardener would you use with the blitz black? Which clear coat/hardener?

Would the clear coat be optional if you added a hardener to the blitz black?

If you added a hardener to the blitz black, would you also need a flatener?? [I assume the hardener would gloss it up].

Which of these introduces isocyanates? The hardener?

Bob

 

A hardener is only needed to speed drying time by raising the temp of paint through chemical reaction. A polyurethane paint will get fully hard without it but it will take a very long time. I did this on a table that was flat and I wanted a perfectly flat smooth finish (I used auto paint on a table) and I also had a dust free environment. But I would not do it again as I am talking like a week and I still was not sure it was fully hard plus I learned how to wet sand and buff later.

As for the blitz black, it was made as a topcoat for farm equipment and is enamel so no hardener and no clear you just paint it on. I don’t think any flat is as hard as a gloss though even urethane. Wet sanding and buffing might add a patina I guess but it would never shine.

Gloss comes from agents in the paint that rise to the top and lie flat when dry. (OK this is to the best of my understanding here from years of wood working) Try this, go to Lowe’s or such and open a can of clear gloss polyurethane and a can of flat, do not shake them. When you look into the can the gloss will be yellow/clear to the bottom, the flat will as well but you will see a bunch of sludge (my word) on the bottom. That sludge once stirred traps the what ever it is that dries on the top and holds it down deeper into the paint. That is the only difference between the 2, I think the surface it not as hard because the same stuff that shines is what makes it hard? I only say this because you asked about the hardener making it gloss.
Hardener, which is not the proper name, is catalyst because it causes a reaction creating energy (heat) and that dries the paint faster it does not make it harder.

Again this is not a scientific answer only what I have gathered and assumed over the years so if some one knows exactly what goes on share please.

 

From what I've read, I think you're right. The hardeners reduce the curing time (from months to days?) and clear coat is just uncolored.

Do you need reducers for the blitz black or can I just spray it straight?

Bob

 

Anytime you spray paint you should thin it to work in your gun, I have a few guns some cheap some not all old Everyone likes something different; I start with the recommended and shoot a test spot then adjust. Woodworking is not as precise as auto finish and I am having trouble getting the hang of things.

I want to paint my motorcycle so I have been practicing, I am getting better but not ready to attempt the bike yet. I can get a regular job on but I want to do candy and that has to be perfect, then there are the graphics, which are proving to be beyond me at this point.

 

I heard ppg has some good stuff for my application anyone know anything bought ppg products?

 

I shot some PPG flat black on a dashboard earlier this summer. It was an acrylic enamel. The vendor just mixed in some flattener, in some of their stock black paint. It seemed to work okay but I don't know how it would hold up as an exterior paint. You might check with a PPG vendor.

 

When this question was asked I started looking around, OK I got nothing better to do in life just now .
So my $02, the cars that look really great like this look like they had the shine rubbed off through years of polishing and had a patina to them.
If I were going to replicate that I would have to ask myself 2 questions. 1 do I want a long lasting durable finish or 2 do I want the best look going but will need some attention in 3 or 4 years.

1 the best finish you can put on today is urethane, adding a flattening agent will give you a long lasting finish. But the cost for product is higher and you said you were on a budget.
2 the choice that I think I would go for would be to add a flattening agent to a lacquer clear. Hit it with a flat black lacquer base of say 2 coats then 3 flat clear coats. Let dry for a while then sand and buff. The more you buff it the better the look will get and it will IMO replicate the look of an old car as the years went on better. Also the cost is a lot less and you stated you were on a budget. I also think that this is a finish that I would grow tired of so I would be changing it before long anyway.
My only concern here and I hope some one could answer it, is when you are ready for the next paint job. Can a urethane be put over the lacquer or would it all have to come off? If you would need to strip it down then the money saved now might not be worth it down the road.

I know no one recommends lacquer anymore but IMO that is because urethanes are what they are used to and it is the newest thing and more durable and such but that does not make lacquer paint bad. In fact some looks can only be had in lacquers, I have all but talked my self out of urethane for my bike because I will not be keeping the same paint on for very long any way.

 

I had a friend shoot flat black on my truck this past spring as an interm measure (changed boxes and wanted the truck one colour). I thought the retro rod look would be nice. I love it, and the general feedback I get is that most people really like the look. I put some gloss black flames on and the understated look is nice. Don't be afraid to try it (my opinion only).
John

 

Flat Black Ford with gloss flames sounds cool! I'll bet with satin aluminum mags it would look perfect!
Mark