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Hi all, little back story got an arctic wolf 3660 (about 12500 lbs and 1900 lb pin weight loaded for us being weekend campers) earlier this year. After that I picked up a 2018 F350 6.2 to pull it for a good deal but of course Im wishing I had gone with a diesel. Now Ive already had two places offer me more on trade in then what I paid for it two months ago but finding a F350 diesel with the options I want in my price range is next to impossible (in no way a new truck in the budget). I have found quite a few F250s that fit my needs but worried about numbers. I see soo many people on camper forums pulling similar 5th wheels with F250 diesels, I know most have only 2000-2400 pound payload capacity and Id be over. On the other hand the F250 would have a higher GCWR (mine is only 19500 and the F250 would be 21909) also max tow rating is higher on the F250. To be honest I might be pushing GCWR on my truck having the 3.73 gears.
So my big question, I know both can tow the camper but which numbers are most important, payload or GCWR or is it definitely both? Not looking to start a big debate, or anything over which is better gas/diesel but am really curious in general as towing something this size is new to me. Thanks
Risk management is a very personal thing. I towed a 9,000 lb.5er over every mountain range in the country with a 1,510 lb. pin load and had zero problems for over 30,000 miles with a 2012 Tundra. Consequently, I'm not worried about towing the Flagstaff Classic with my 2018 F-150 Max tow. I think the "weight police" forget lawyers never believe engineers so they always reduce the published numbers a bit for "product liability" reasons. At 75 on Lasix, my bladder appreciates a civilized truck!
First, you have Fords GVWR, GCWR and payload for the truck. Second, you have FMCSA (the highway police) definitions of weights. They define your max weight as the FAWR + RAWR, which is more than Fords GVWR, every component has to rated correctly for this (tire, hitch ratings etc.) FMCSA defines GCWR as Fords rating or the GVWR of the truck + GCWR of the rv whichever is greater. As long as you don't go over the axle ratings you are legal.
So you can tow more than it appears, that being said the issue with a F250 is even with the extra weight FMCSA allows, the RAWR is the weak link on a F250. You need to weigh your current truck and get your empty loaded for camping weights, then weigh hooked up to the trailer loaded up for camping (wife, kids, dogs, approx amount of food weight, water, etc.) You can then see if your pin weight. You can then see if that works for an F250. My RAWR is 7230, I think a F250 is 6800.
First, you have Fords GVWR, GCWR and payload for the truck. Second, you have FMCSA (the highway police) definitions of weights. They define your max weight as the FAWR + RAWR, which is more than Fords GVWR, every component has to rated correctly for this (tire, hitch ratings etc.) FMCSA defines GCWR as Fords rating or the GVWR of the truck + GCWR of the rv whichever is greater. As long as you don't go over the axle ratings you are legal.
So you can tow more than it appears, that being said the issue with a F250 is even with the extra weight FMCSA allows, the RAWR is the weak link on a F250. You need to weigh your current truck and get your empty loaded for camping weights, then weigh hooked up to the trailer loaded up for camping (wife, kids, dogs, approx amount of food weight, water, etc.) You can then see if your pin weight. You can then see if that works for an F250. My RAWR is 7230, I think a F250 is 6800.
Thanks for the great details, checking my current F350 the gawr for the rear is 6780 lbs. Sorry if you described it and I didnt understand but if I have my pin and total camper weight how do I figure if the axle is rated correctly?
Thanks for the great details, checking my current F350 the gawr for the rear is 6780 lbs. Sorry if you described it and I didnt understand but if I have my pin and total camper weight how do I figure if the axle is rated correctly?
An MY2017+ F-350 with a 6780 lbs. rear GAWR means it shipped from the factory with “small” LT275/65R18E all-season tires that limit the rear GAWR and GVWR. F-350s with optional LT275/70R18E tires or larger but otherwise identical have a 7230 lbs. rear GAWR.
You can unofficially increase your truck’s rear GAWR by installing the larger tires.
Hi all, little back story got an arctic wolf 3660 (about 12500 lbs and 1900 lb pin weight loaded for us being weekend campers) earlier this year. After that I picked up a 2018 F350 6.2 to pull it for a good deal but of course Im wishing I had gone with a diesel. Now Ive already had two places offer me more on trade in then what I paid for it two months ago but finding a F350 diesel with the options I want in my price range is next to impossible (in no way a new truck in the budget). I have found quite a few F250s that fit my needs but worried about numbers. I see soo many people on camper forums pulling similar 5th wheels with F250 diesels, I know most have only 2000-2400 pound payload capacity and Id be over. On the other hand the F250 would have a higher GCWR (mine is only 19500 and the F250 would be 21909) also max tow rating is higher on the F250. To be honest I might be pushing GCWR on my truck having the 3.73 gears.
So my big question, I know both can tow the camper but which numbers are most important, payload or GCWR or is it definitely both? Not looking to start a big debate, or anything over which is better gas/diesel but am really curious in general as towing something this size is new to me. Thanks
Another option would be to change the differential(s) and increase the axle ratio from 3.73 to 4.30. Your dealer could quickly reprogram your truck’s computer for this factory option value, and it would increase your GCWR to 22,000 lbs. (fifth wheel) or 23,000 lbs. (travel trailer).
An MY2017+ F-350 with a 6780 lbs. rear GAWR means it shipped from the factory with “small” LT275/65R18E all-season tires that limit the rear GAWR and GVWR. F-350s with optional LT275/70R18E tires or larger but otherwise identical have a 7230 lbs. rear GAWR.
You can unofficially increase your truck’s rear GAWR by installing the larger tires.
HTH,
Jim / crewzer
The new tires I just installed I actually moved up to the 275/70r18s. Ive thought of a gear swap but driving daily dont want to hurt my mileage anymore, one reason Im looking at switching to a diesel. On a F250 how do I determine how much extra weight I can put on the rear axle without taking it to a scale?
Thanks for the great details, checking my current F350 the gawr for the rear is 6780 lbs. Sorry if you described it and I didnt understand but if I have my pin and total camper weight how do I figure if the axle is rated correctly?
I don't have a F250, but just did a quick search. It looks like you get a 6340 or 6780 rawr. So if you get your pin weight and it works with your F350, then it should work with a F250 if you find one with the 6780 rawr. If you find a F250 with the 6340 rawr, it is doubtful, but run the numbers. Keep in mind with a F250 weight is critical, meaning if you find one with Ranchhand steel front and rear bumpers, etc., that extra weight gets subtracted from your useful load.
The new tires I just installed I actually moved up to the 275/70r18s. Ive thought of a gear swap but driving daily dont want to hurt my mileage anymore, one reason Im looking at switching to a diesel. On a F250 how do I determine how much extra weight I can put on the rear axle without taking it to a scale?
We went from a 2017 F-350 6.2 3.73 LT275/65R18E to a 2019 F-350 6.2 4.30 with after-market LT275/70R18E tires. Allowing for the larger tires, the effective axle ratio is ~4.09.
I haven’t noticed any significant difference between the two trucks in fuel economy.
If you want to “go by the numbers”, then a Diesel F-250 may be problematic due to the engine’s extra 800 lbs. in weight.
See the charts below for F250 axle curb weights. These are generally max numbers assuming a truck with base trim and no options, so the actual curb weights are generally higher, and the actual payloads correspondingly lower.
We went from a 2017 F-350 6.2 3.73 LT275/65R18E to a 2019 F-350 6.2 4.30 with after-market LT275/70R18E tires. Allowing for the larger tires, the effective axle ratio is ~4.09.
I haven’t noticed any significant difference between the two trucks in fuel economy.
Tell is more about your truck: cab type, bed length, and drive type.
I don't have a F250, but just did a quick search. It looks like you get a 6340 or 6780 rawr. So if you get your pin weight and it works with your F350, then it should work with a F250 if you find one with the 6780 rawr. If you find a F250 with the 6340 rawr, it is doubtful, but run the numbers. Keep in mind with a F250 weight is critical, meaning if you find one with Ranchhand steel front and rear bumpers, etc., that extra weight gets subtracted from your useful load.
thank you again, is there a way to find out how much weight capacity is left on the rear axle without a scale trip or no? Asking if I start shopping F250s any math I can do off the stickers? Sucks Im looking at Latriats
See the charts below for F250 axle curb weights. These are generally max numbers assuming a truck with base trim and no options, so the actual curb weights are generally higher, and the actual payloads correspondingly lower.
Note that on an F-250 you’ll often hit the payload limit before pin load exceeds the rear GAWR.
thank you again, is there a way to find out how much weight capacity is left on the rear axle without a scale trip or no? Asking if I start shopping F250s any math I can do off the stickers? Sucks Im looking at Latriats
It is not easy without weighing. The chart like SDcrewzer posted for my truck shows about 760 lbs less than what mine weighs. That is with me 220 lbs, full fuel, some straps, the gooseneck ball and retainers, and also an aluminum bumper hitch.
My camper advertised pin weight is 1880 lbs and gvwr of 12500, almost identical to yours. Actual pin is 2310 lbs ready for camping with no water in the tank.
My actual scale weights on my F350 Lariat srw ccsb, are fawr 4980; rawr 5860 and trailer 8540 for 19380 total.
Your best bet, I think in this market, might be to just change your axle ratio to 4:30's and wait the market out before upgrading. Otherwise, you could just take it easy as is and wait it out.
Another option would be to change the differential(s) and increase the axle ratio from 3.73 to 4.30. Your dealer could quickly reprogram your truck’s computer for this factory option value, and it would increase your GCWR to 22,000 lbs. (fifth wheel) or 23,000 lbs. (travel trailer).
HTH,
Jim / crewzer
I doubt OP is getting a 2,500 lb GCWR bump from gears alone. Just not happening.
The 4.30 axle itself likely comes with heavier duty parts the 3.73 axle doesn’t.
I doubt OP is getting a 2,500 lb GCWR bump from gears alone. Just not happening.
The 4.30 axle itself likely comes with heavier duty parts the 3.73 axle doesn’t.
Yes, you do get a 2500 lb increase in GCWR going to 4.30 gears, 19500 to 22000. Check the guides. Also there would be basically zero difference between the weight of 3.73 vs 4.30 gears. It's about the size/number of the cogs on the gears. That's it. Nothing magical. Same axle and all other components. No heavier duty parts.
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