Couldn't find any info in the search, maybe I'm missing something. Pardon my ignorance, but is it right to assume that at least from 83-88, the body style including the frame is all the same? I'm doing lots of research before pulling the trigger on an aftermarket EFI system and am working out what I'm going to do with the sending units and fuel delivery. I'd really like to have the pumps end up in the tank. I've contemplated just using my existing (dual) tanks (my truck is an 84 F250 with 5.0L, soon will be a 460) with the 460 senders from the same year (I know these are low pressure pumps) and modifying the sender somehow to accept the pump supplied with the EFI kit.

Then I may have had another idea... how about using the the tanks from an 87 with the larger (I think 4"?) opening and the hanger assemblies that already have a high pressure pump in them?
I believe my original tanks to be: E0TZ-9002-D - MPC lists as midship tank but it is actually the aft tank
E3TZ-9002-M - Midship tank

The two tanks I'm looking to swap in would be: E7TZ-9002-A - Aft tank
E9TZ-9002-S - Midship tank

Looking at actual aftermarket parts images, they look virtually the same with the exception of the hanger assembly holes. Does anyone know for sure if the tanks are physically (size-wise) the same and can "bolt in"? It would make this fuel injection conversion a whole heck of a lot easier. Otherwise, it's back to the drawing board.

 

The frame from 80 - 86 I am pretty sure is the same with in the model, 100 for 100 (80-830, 150 for 150, 250 etc>

Now the frames on the 87 to when the body style changed is also the same other than where the front bumper bolts up.
A member on another forum took think it was a 95 frame and mounted a 85 cab & bed and in order to mount the 80-86 bumper he cut the frame bumper horns off the welded on the right ones to mount the 80-86 bumper.

So with that said and not really reading your full post, kind of skipped over it, I am sure the tanks will bolt up to the frames so should be good there but ............
Note the later year (87>) pump / sending units that you are thinking of using because of the high PSI pump, uses a different sender from what I have seen posted.
Something like it will read full when empty and the other way around is 1 issue and I think they say the ohms are different also? But that maybe the E / F thing?

Then you have the tank switching valve. I want to say your valve on the frame rail is switched by fuel PSI and not a motor like on my 81.
Just went back over your post, does your truck have EFI or a carb and if carb how is the tanks switched?
Not knowing how your tanks switch will the high PSI pumps work with it?

I am sure the EFI fuel systems uses a switch valve (6 port) that the fuel PSI makes it switch and the switch valve also changes the fuel gauge.
6 ports because you have supply & return on EFI motors.
My switch valve (3 port) is a motor type and the gauge is done through the dash switch.
3 ports supply no return.

I do see what you are trying to do, in tanks high PSI pumps that also work your gauge and tanks that will make this happen.
Lets see if others have an answer?
Dave ----

ps what kit you going with and you will start a thread on this I hope.

 

The fuel tank openings changed around 1984-85. That's when they started using in tank fuel pumps for the carbed 460's, so they changed all the tanks over to the large opening.

You can't use any sending unit after 1986. In 1987 Ford changed the gauges and the sending units, they work differently than the 86 dwn units.

Your 1st plan of modifying your original sending units would work. I would ask the company about any tank baffling they may require or recommend, these old tanks don't use any baffling. Your biggest problem will be finding someone who sells the sending unit you want, some of them are not made anymore. And you will have to adapt your wiring to fit the new sending unit plug-in.

 

This is good news, I was hoping they were!

Still have to get some further info on the tanks tomorrow. So far I was able to retrieve the dimensions of the existing tanks installed and the 87 tanks and they are dimensionally (at least dimensionally, hopefully all contours are the same too) identical.


This crossed my mind. I'm going to reach out to guy who works on sending units to see if maybe he can either change the values of the resister on the later hanger assemblies or install one from say my sending unit onto the later hanger assembly. I believe he does custom work. The 87 460 hanger assemblies appear to be of the high pressure variety but my parts manual states the midship hanger is "4604V" which I would understand to be carbureted but says the aft tank hanger is 460 EFI. I've included a photo of that listing.

Currently a carbed 302. I never looked closely at the valve but I'm of the understanding that I will probably have to get a 6 port valve rated for higher pressure, and to accommodate the return lines. Holley sells a kit specifically for dual tanks but I'm not spending what they're asking. I can source the parts separately and hook it up my own way for significantly less. I'd like to use my existing fuel tank selector switch as well.


I'm pretty confident this will go off without a hitch once I get the parts rounded up. I may have a line on the original hanger assemblies which I'd prefer over the new "aftermarket ones". I'm just hoping I can get the resistance values changed to use my existing gauges.

I haven't decided yet. It's a toss-up between the Holley and MSD (yes I know they're basically from the same company). A couple of features which may be available on both are very important to me, one being the idle kick when the AC compressor turns on. I'm usually a purist and would keep things original but I'm really digging the thought of having "fuel injection". I will start a thread to document the project once I get the engine in. This whole thing gonna be time consuming because I'm switching motors and adding EFI. Haven't decided if I want to set the motor up on a carb to break in and then add the EFI or just go with EFI from the start.

 

So tanks on an 85 should have the larger (close to 4") opening?

I replied to Dave touching on this and could probably have the sending unit "customized" to allow the ohms reading to be what they need to be but I may being presumptuous about that. I suppose I could use an 85/86 sending unit and take out the stock pump and make the new EFI pump work. I was going to go with the 87 hangers because I believe those are already high pressure pumps installed which may be closer in size to the pump included in the EFI kit.

This crossed my mind as well. I may have to put one of those hydramats in. I'm kind of wondering how things worked on the trucks that came with stock EFI 460's... I think those tanks were without baffles too. I see on the hanger the return line dumps literally right over the fuel pump sock.

So far I've been able to source senders for both years I'm looking it, either 85 or 87. Aftermarket seem to be readily available but I'm not a huge fan of the plastic float and in my experience, the aftermarket "sender" portion are unreliable. I may have a line on factory NOS units but have to determine which tank I'm going to use first.

 

If you are looking for a tank with a in tank fuel pump then you will need a 85-86 tank, they have the large opening with the sending unit with a lift pump to a canister on the frame where the high pressure pump pulls fuel from. You can remove the low pressure lift pump and replace it with a high pressure pump.

That is what I am doing on my '82 with my Sniper Stealth upgrade. Use of a Spectre 85-86 sender with hopefully a NOS sending unit replacing the OE lift pump for a Walbro 255LPH fuel pump.

You have to use a 85-86 sender how ever, the 87 will still fit but the resistance on the sender was flipped so when your tank is empty it will read full and when full it will read empty. You are pretty much stuck with running the 85-86 sender, unless you plan on running say the Dakota Digital Cluster for our trucks where you can select what your sender is for the gauge to read correctly.

 

This is exactly the info I was looking for. I'm assuming the reservoir and lift pump is irrelevant to me as I imagine this is how fuel starvation with low fuel in the tank when turning, etc was counteracted?

What do you mean you're using a Spectra Sender with an NOS sending unit?

I'm wondering if the size of the physical pump is the same for the 85/86 versus the 87. I was only going to use an 87 sender because it appears that by 87 it was full blown high pressure EFI so I thought that maybe the pump used more closely resembles the modern EFI in tank pumps. The pump on the 85/86 is low pressure and looks different, from what I can tell.

 

1) Correct, the canister was to prevent starving the fuel pump when making turns at low fuel level. If you throw the pump in the tank and do away with everything else it will work but you will have a issue with fuel sloshing at low fuel levels. This is why I am going to have a local shop cut my new gas tank open and weld in a baffle to counter this issue so I wont see a stumble at less than 1/2 tank of fuel.

2) Spectra fuel tank, the Fuel tank I am getting will be a aftermarket Spectra brand of fuel tank. The sending unit itself will be NOS as ford senders used a non linear scale for resistance to match their non linear scale gauges. The aftermarket senders while they are good senders they have a linear resistance which results in the gauge reading funky. For example my unit that is a new sender would stay on full for like a week and a half then all of a sudden it would just drop down to just above a 1/2 a tank then hang there again dropping very little till the next drop down to 1/4 all at once. Its something that worked but not something I want. I have a NOS 82 sender but since I decided to not go with a 4V carb like my initial plan for my engine build was to be I have to source the 85-86 sender. I have two on watch on ebay but they are $150 and $250 which is too pricy for me when I wont even be using the lift pump that comes with the unit.

3) the pump in the tank is the same size regardless its just a low pressure pump. You can easily fit a high pressure Walbro in tank pump in the cradle without modifications. As far as I know as late as 1989 Ford did not do a high pressure pump in the tank. My fathers 89 E150 van that I had to replace the lift pump on it has the same canister on the frame and high pressure pump on the frame as 85/86 trucks had. If you try to look up a high pressure pump for these years it will look different as they are frame mounted not intended for in tank application. You will need to look up in tank pumps for a foxbody mustang which is of the same vintage. The Walbro pump I am looking at the GSS342BX is a 255LPH pump that is listed as fitting a Foxbody mustang this one how ever has a 11mm inlet which will allow me to use the 16-111 3"x15" Holley HydraMat pickup sock that has a 11mm fitting.

 

I won't quote your whole answer as it's a lot of text to repost in my reply but that is all phenomenal info. It sounds to me like you are kind of working on the same thing I am in regards to (sort of) modifying the senders to allow for the use of a high pressure pump. I'm wondering if some $$ can be saved and buy the EFI kits without the pump and just use a universal in-tank pump that matches the flow rating of the one supplied with the kit. Sounds like you may be doing that with the Walbro pump.

I'm also wondering if I should add that fuel reservoir. I suppose I'd have to see how much it would cost to have baffles added into my tank. I worry that as much as the baffles may prevent fuel sloshing, they could also prevent fuel from getting to the pump too. I know some holes or something would have to be in the baffles to allow for the fuel to pass through. Is a radiator shop doing yours?

You also confirm something I've suspected for a long time- the aftermarket senders suck. I never knew the reason why but have always had bad luck with the aftermarket senders. I finally scored two NOS senders, installed one of the two and it worked fantastic for about 2 weeks and now all of a sudden the gauge reads 7/8 when it's actually full. The ohms on the sender are correct so I must have another issue.

 

You can, that is all we do at work we buy the aftermarket EFI kits by themselves without the fuel pump or the fuel hose and fittings and we just source a in tank pump for applications that have a OE option for a tank with a in tank pump. Otherwise we use tanks inc for their tanks but they do not offer tanks for our trucks.

I havent found a place to do mine yet, I am going to call up Texas Auto Gear they deal with trucks I have heard that part of their custom work do involve fuel tank modifications. The whole point of the baffling is to restrict fuel flow just enough that you will complete your turn before all the fuel sloshes out. You also have to remember any unused fuel that is being pumped back to the fuel tank is being pumped back into the baffled area of the tank.

What I am going to do is like I have done at work numerous times, pull the low pressure lift pump off the NOS sender, clip the wires to convert them to the high pressure Walbro pump connector then simply mount the pump like the low pressure lift pump was then install sock. From there I will be using Earls -6 AN fittings with 5/16" and 3/8" quick disconnect to attach to the NOS sending unit then I will run a short length of hose to my Corvette fuel filter/pressure regulator then I will have a hardline from the fuel filter/pressure regulator all the way up the frame to where the OE mechanical fuel pump would be then I will flare it for -6 AN to make my hose connection to the hardline I will be making for my engine itself. I just dont know if I want to make a hardline between the fuel tank and the filter assembly. I still will have to flare it for -6 AN as the inlet side of my corvette filter is male quick disconnect the outlet is female. For some money I can rent a male quick disconnect flare tool to flare the hardline but there is no tool to create female quick disconnect in hardline.

As far as the canister on the frame goes only way you can use that is if you mount a fuel pump on the frame. I wont be doing that as it is doubling up on the fuel pumps you need and a frame mounted fuel pump will run hotter and louder than a fuel pump in the tank. The Holley mat I will be using on my pump is supposed to prevent fuel starvation when making cornering without baffled tanks but I will be baffling my tank as well ontop of running the mat.

 

I have done a little research on the hydramats. Looks like a great idea but boy, they're a little costly. But I suppose if they work, worth it.

Do you know why the EFI supplier says that hard line should not be used between the tank and engine, that only the rubber line they supply (or any fuel injection rubber line for that matter) should only be used?

 

If you want high pressure, in tank pump, this would be 90 and up with the FDM's

If I recall correctly, the 85/86 tank has a much smaller opening than the 87 up tank. Think the opening stayed the same size when the FDM was introduced.

There are 2 different sized front tanks based on wheelbase.

The Bronco tank will fit in the rear space, lots more capacity, but they also have multiple hole sizes along the same year spreads as the pickup tanks.

All tanks will fit into all year frames.

If you don't mind a bit of tinkering, I'm pretty sure you could program up a Raspberry Pi to manage the fuel gauge. Might be a bit too close to electronics for some tastes!

 

Honestly I have been thinking about not running the hydramat but if I cant find someone local to build a baffle in my fuel tank I will have to run it but the reason I am a little wary of it is that all the reading Ive done stated that the life expectancy in a typical street car would be 6 years or 60,000 miles. That makes me wary as I dont like the thought of having to drop my tank to change the sock in 6 years or 60,000 miles. But it might be my only option as I havent contacted Texas Auto Gear yet to see if they would do something like this then the next question is how much would he charge to do something custom like this.

I couldnt say I just know its easier to route a rubber fuel line than it is to route a hardline. I found for our trucks from Inline Tube they offer a long wheelbase 3/8" stainless steel fuel line which will be way too long for my short wheel base flareside but I dont need all of it, just the piece from the fuel hose end at the engine to about where the driverside door is to make the connection to my fuel filter/regulator. For the cost its not worth the time of trying to custom make the hardline and its cheaper than buying 20ft of the Earls Vaporguard EFI hose.

I personally prefer the hardline aspect as it cuts down on leak points and lets face it rubber fuel hose will eventually leak. Then becomes the question once it starts to leak do you have a 10ft long run of fuel hose you have to replace the whole thing or have it in 2ft or less sections of rubber fuel hose.

 

They are the same, I made the mistake at work and ordered a 87 sending unit for the 85/86 tank I got for the EFI conversion it fit just fine but the scale was reversed and was ready full when empty and empty when full. They do list 85-86 as separate from 87 - 89 and I feel that may be because of the fuel filler change that they did where the fuel goes down a central tube and vented around said tube where 80 - 86 went down the main filler and vented up through the small tube.

Aside from that I believe the tanks are all the same 85 - 89 as in they dont have baffles and they are the same dimensions and for some strange reason no one makes this saddle tank with a baffle but they make them for other vehicles.

 

As far as mounting the fuel tank is concerned, the frames are the same from 1980-1996/7. I don't have a rear tank, but I just swapped a 1995 chassis under a 1980 short wheelbase, and the 1980-1984 side tank bolted right in same as normal.

I have Spectra Premium tanks and sending units in both trucks now, and they work great. I have to make a few adjustments to the sending unit floats and pickups, but they now perform as the original Ford ones did.

I was reading recently where a guy installed an aftermarket EFI fuel pump in a swb side tank, and he put a new hole in the tank at the back (as that was the only spot on the tank where it was deep enough to house the fuel pump assembly). So there's always that...install a complete new pump and leave the old sending unit as it was for the fuel gauge.