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I had rear brakes, cylinders and cables put on my '86 F-350 recently and upon the first drive the pedal went way down. Okay, bled them again. Then on the first ride after that, pedal was still going down. So I had a new master cylinder and booster put on. Pedal still not great and then the calipers were sticking on heating up the pads. Put new calipers, rotors and pads on and today the things were stuck on again! I have noticed the brake pedal is not "up" near the clutch pedal where I think it should be, and today I put my foot under the pedal just for the heck of it, pulled up, and could bring it back just a little. And could notice the truck pick up a little speed when I did that.
Has anyone ever experienced this? What do I have going on here? I have never experienced anything like this. Bad master cylinder? Pedal problem? Wrong master cylinder? Faulty booster? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated at this point.
what kind of booster/master cylinder did you put in? Do you hear any hiss when pumping the breaks? And try this, with the truck off put your foot on the break, does it go down when you start the truck?
What kind, as in the brand? I don't know, I would have to ask the guy who did the work. I do not hear any hissing when I hit the brakes. Maybe there's a small leak I'm just not hearing? But I did just go out and tried the foot on the brake while starting. I tried it a few times and it went down just barely, almost nothing really, or didn't go down at all. Pedal still going way down close to the floor.
It's ironic you asked that question. My last truck which was identical to this one did just that. It was a four speed also, so I'd jump in, push the clutch in, roll just a bit if not on the level, put my foot on the brake while cranking and when it fired she'd stop. The pedal would go down with no additional effort and my head would jerk forward a little! The brakes were awesome on that truck. What does the lack of travel after it starts up mean with this one?
Sounds like the rear shoes are not adjusted properly, that is giving you the low pedal.
Make sure the parking brake is off. Lift the rear of the truck up and take it out of gear so you can turn the tires. Get to the backing plate and take a adjusting tool or a screwdriver, and turn the adjuster till you can't budge the tire, it locks it up. Then turn the adjuster the other way till you can turn the tire, but there is still some rubbing of the shoes. The move to the other side and do the same thing. Then try it out.
Thanks for the responses, guy's
Well, we might be onto something here. Another brake issue I'm having (but did not mention because it was not as important as the stuck calipers) is the emergency brake is not holding the truck with a load on it. It will creep just a little, and this is with all new components except the pedal and front cable. I figured it just needed some more adjustment. I mentioned this to the guy who did the work and he said the shoes were out to the drum, and there was no more travel on the front cable/rear cables adjuster/equalizer. So I figured it was a front cable that was old and stretched out and was going to worry about it after the caliper issue. Could something be installed wrong at the backing plates and/or could my drums be too worn? As in everything back there is travelling too far out to reach the drums? Going too far out and not coming back in?
First you have to get the rear drums adjusted right or it will be difficult to get all the air from the system.
while the rear wheels are off the ground for the adjustment and bleeding, move to the parking brake cable and use a pry bar to actuate the parking brake ( you might need help turning the wheels and applying the parking brake)
this is a spring loaded assembly and should act as such. Keep in mind if the rear brakes are not adjusted properly they won't hold the vehicle.
I agree. Something has to be wrong in the back and that's affecting everything else. Very frustrating at this point! Like I said, my last truck, even when grossly overloaded..., would stop effortlessly. You didn't have to stand on it and the pedal didn't go down much at all!
Would either the rear shoe adjustment or the booster push rod, or both, cause the brake pedal to "rest" well below the clutch pedal height? That was really the first thing I noticed before I even drove it after the brake job. Prior to this truck, I had two F-series and a full size Bronco, all standards, and the pedals were pretty even in height. I don't remember a difference with those like the one I have now!
Would either the rear shoe adjustment or the booster push rod, or both, cause the brake pedal to "rest" well below the clutch pedal height? That was really the first thing I noticed before I even drove it after the brake job. Prior to this truck, I had two F-series and a full size Bronco, all standards, and the pedals were pretty even in height. I don't remember a difference with those like the one I have now!
Yeah, its supposed to go down when you start it, which I why I asked. I agree with everyone that the rears need adjusting. Which would be good news if I were in your shoes - pun intended lol
What kind, as in the brand? I don't know, I would have to ask the guy who did the work. I do not hear any hissing when I hit the brakes. Maybe there's a small leak I'm just not hearing? But I did just go out and tried the foot on the brake while starting. I tried it a few times and it went down just barely, almost nothing really, or didn't go down at all. Pedal still going way down close to the floor.
It's ironic you asked that question. My last truck which was identical to this one did just that. It was a four speed also, so I'd jump in, push the clutch in, roll just a bit if not on the level, put my foot on the brake while cranking and when it fired she'd stop. The pedal would go down with no additional effort and my head would jerk forward a little! The brakes were awesome on that truck. What does the lack of travel after it starts up mean with this one?
Steve
And I did ask about the brand because I tried cardone brake boosters (Chinesium) and got two bad ones in a row. Just frustrating lol
After making sure the rear shoes are working correctly/adjusted, I'll agree that you may need a different brake booster. I had three before I got a Booster and M/C I'm happy with.
I don't see where he said he had a brake dragging problem, so I would not look to the booster to master cylinder adjustment.
If he takes it back to the guy that worked on it, he will probably insist the brakes are adjusted properly. He needs to do the procedure I outlined, and adjust till you can't turn the wheel. That whole brake assembly floats in the drum, and if it's off center, you think you have it adjusted when you really don't. Adjusting them till you can turn the wheel centers the assembly in the drum. And they should have a little drag when you are finished adjusting them.
And I agree also with what another previous poster mentioned, after all this if the pedal is high but a little spongy, you might need to bleed them again. Sometimes I have had to bleed them twice after they sit for awhile. No need to guess though, if the pedal doesn't feel firm, you still have some air in it.
Another brake issue I'm having (but did not mention because it was not as important as the stuck calipers) is the emergency brake is not holding the truck with a load on it...
Could something be installed wrong at the backing plates...
Sounds like you may have two problems happening at once, both hydraulic (mushy brakes) and mechanical (parking brake not holding). Definitely take care of the mechanical side, as the physical operation of the rear drums can affect how the hydraulic side operates the front brakes. More in a minute.
On my '84, one day the parking brake seemed to have lost a lot of effectiveness. It still kinda, sorta worked, but not like it had been previously. The parking brake pedal also traveled further than it had been. Within a few days, I also heard a light scraping sound from the back when the brakes were off. Step on the brakes and the noise ceased. I thought maybe a small rock got inside the drum. I tried stomping on the brakes in reverse (dislodge the imaginary pebble?), and that seemed to quite things down for a day or two, but the parking brake still wasn't right.
I tried adjusting the rear drums but no improvement. I finally pulled the rear drums for a look-see. I found one of the shoe hold-down springs had broken and was sitting loose. That was the noise I heard. I replaced the hardware, readjusted the drums, and all was good. The parking brake was back to normal, and felt like it could hold a freight train. No other changes were made. I didn't touch the cables or anything else. Even though I had previously tried adjusting the drums, it didn't help if the shoe wasn't properly retained by the hold-down spring. This surprised me somewhat, as the shoes are free to float to some extent, but I guess having the proper hold-down tension made the difference. I gave up trying to figure it out, and was just glad to have my parking brake once again.
Once I fixed the rear shoe hold-down, the hydraulic action of the whole system also improved. You can read more details of how the mechanical action at the rear shoes will affect the performance of the entire hydraulic system (front and back) at this link:
Also, if the system has been opened upstream of the metering valve (your system has), make sure the entire system is given a full pressure bleed as described at the link above. Most pro shops do this automatically, but you should ask to be sure. The old standby Michael Jackson (man and a boy) brake bleeding system just won't cut it. You'd think it wouldn't really matter, but it does. Dramatically, I can vouch.
