It seems like allot of redundant work to put it in and take it out again but of course it's your time . How is the oil pressure - consumption , how hard do you drive it ? If it was me and the oil consumption isn't too outrageous ( will be better with the leak fixed ) I would do the bearings , timing chain , oil pump and rear main seal for peace of mind . If your intentions are to do a complete rebuild later the keep an eye on and ear out for any knocking and stop using it if there are issues . It's allot tougher to rebuild a block that has a rod sticking through it . lol JMHO

 

Truth! Although JB Weld...

 

That would be my plan. It's obvious it's been built before since the rod caps don't match up, so the rings may be in decent shape. Everything you mentioned would be around $200.00 to $300.00 dollars, if the oil pump isn't too much. Then you will have a known good engine.

Be sure and check the main or rod journals in case they have been turned.

 

Back when I was building racing Briggs go kart engines, I saw many with the side beat back flat after a thrown rod, and JB Weld smeared on like bondo.


Worked great, and saved many a good block to race again.

 

It should be stamped on the backside of the bearings if it's oversize .

 

Hopefully stamped on the crank too. I have seen a FE crank stamped #.10, both rod and main, with standard rod and main bearings in it. Idled at zero oil pressure, but ran like crazy.

 

I am working towards acceptance of a rebuild. It is an enjoyable task, but I had hoped to not have a zillion other truck bits spread around the shop. Keep telling me why it should be done now. Helped my dad on a few as a kid and then on my own (Mustang 289, high school ) and then in college (BMW, pistons bankrupted me!).

The FP is for the bin anyway. I can see that the FP rod is out of whack (bent? loose?) I'll pull it and toss it. Not sure a diagnosis is worth while, unless you guys are curious or that pump is rare (glass bowl).

I'll pull a few more bearing caps and check that thrust bearing.

 

I like smooth and even. Good bit of wear... not so much. Everything on this truck has shown " a good bit of wear". Seems like, from trucks perspective I bought it just in time. The PO's son, not a car guy, said he was tempted to drive the heck out it.

These #2's are actually matched. Here is a blow up of the original image.





But, your point is a good one. I'll go check all the numbers as I look at more of the bearings.
See my previous post replying to Ross as well.

 

Pop the main and rod shells out of their caps and see what U/S they are. If they are already -.030", the crank may not be able to be turned. (or you couldn't find 40-under bearings) May affect some decisions.

 

That's good that #2 are matched. The rod looked to be a 5 to me, but she, and needing new glasses made the rod look like a 5.

I completely understand not wanting to spend time and money on the engine now. But.....the mains need to be changed, and I would think the rod bearings are worn as much, or more.

The timing chain and gear are worn to the point of ready to fail. The chain is almost against the block it's so loose.

If nothing else, put in new rod and main bearings, and a timing gear set. You have the engine open. There will never be a better time. I wouldn't trust the timing gears and chain 100 miles.

Amazon has some very good prices on no-name bearings and such. Probably can find a timing set for your engine too.

At least do these even if you don't do the oil pump. Are you ever going to enjoy driving something you expect to quit running any minute?

If you have to let the truck sit a while, you will be ahead doing the bottom end and timing.

Your engine is very clean inside. Don't risk it over 3 to 4 hundred dollars. If it's not going to be a high mileage daily driver, I would leave the top end alone.

 

First some data, and then a question or two:
I pulled the center main with the thrust bearing surface. The wear is similar to the other main in the previous post. Marking on the back is shown one of the photos below. It is a Federal Mogul "Fm" bearing with no stamp indicating undersize.
I also pulled a rod cap. This shows nothing like the wear of the mains. The bearing is from Clevite. Again, no clear indication of undersize.
marking are.

CLEVITE 77 on one end

1173 010
CB 461P on the other

it is possible that "010" is an undersizing but this far from clear

This video explains Clevite markings: I put this up as he says "older" bearings were not stamped, but marked in ink and he ink would wear off. They began stamping in the 90s.

So, perhaps the crank has not been ground at all? And the rod is either standard or 0.010 under ? Or we just don't know.

Photos:



center main, side 1

center main side 2

Markings




center main crank




the rod cap

the rod crank


Question:
Yardbird: when you say just do the bottom end, I had not considered that possibility. What does that entail? I see two answers (A and B below) but I'd love to hear what you had in mind.
(A) Leave the heads in place and don't even look at the bores? Cam stays in place?
(B) Pull the heads but don't do any work on them? Pull pistons and measure the bores for taper and either hone or bore as needed? Then it's new rings, at least. This is basically a complete short-block rebuild

I really appreciate both of you letting me benefit from you experience.

 

At this point it wouldn't take much to take the crank out, take it to a machine shop to have it mic'd and polished, and a correct set of sized bearings (rods and mains) purchased for install. That would end speculation, take care of the bottom end once and for all, and it wouldn't break the bank. It would also give you the opportunity to address the rear main seal correctly, which is what started this whole adventure.

You can see the bottoms of the cylinder bores. What do they look like? Can you still see cross hatch marks in the bores, or are they all worn looking where you can see the trail of the pistons in the walls? That could tell you something about cylinder wear. Did you have it running prior to tear down? Did you ever do a compression check?

 

Wayne, here is what I know about the running state of the motor.
...Late 50s or early 60s 292 from a manual tranny sedan or wagon of some sort ("EDB-E" block, front oil pan reservoir, crankcase vent up top at the rear of the valley pan.)
...It ran like a champ before I took the truck apart to get at the cracked frame.
...Vacuum at idle was rock steady at 17.5 in-Hg (I live at a touch above 5000 ft altitude so this is quite good.)
...Plugs 1,2 and 7 have "non-fouling inserts" on the spark plugs, suggestive of some oil control problem but no info on the "what" and "when" of this.
...I did not get around to doing compression tests before I reset the project to address the frame. (Regretting this.)
...I have no information on consumption of oil, only know that it dripped. I ran the motor only about 2 hrs before dissembly of the truck.
...Has the external oiling lines feeding into the rocker covers.

I am settling in to do AT LEAST what you say, all new bearings on crank and rods, new timing chain, oil seals. I believe this is what Yardbird has in mind as well. I am still debating with myself as to how far to take the rebuild. I mentioned the non-fouling inserts on 3 cylinders to prompt experienced folk such as you to suggest what nefarious goings on might be happening in the heads. (Trashed valve guide seals? Bad oil rings? ) On the other hand, maybe back in the day folks just put those inserts on as soon as a plug fouled. (see above, regret lack of compression test.)

 

The good news is it's pretty easy, relatively speaking, to do head work later if the need arises down the road. If it ran good before I'd be less inclined to go any deeper than discussed at this point. Mission creep is a terrible and expensive thing.

I'm going to speculate the numbers on your rod bearings 11 73 010 are a date code, 11/73, and an undersize ID 010. The CB 431P is a part number.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...SABEgKOhfD_BwE

 

Oil problems that foul plugs are usually from worn valve guides. Could also be from rings, but that usually is more of a "mosquito fogger" type of result. I suspect your engine needs "the works". Leaning over fat fenders to yank the heads and to torque them down is no fun at all.