Warped Battery Plates
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Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Wyoming
Before camping last weekend, my trailer was at my house and I connected the shore power. At 3 pm I checked the voltage at the battery and it was 14.7 volts. I checked the voltage again the next morning at about 10 am. The voltage was the same at 14.7 volts. I sent an email question to IOTA Engineering, asking if that voltage was right for my DLS-45/IQ converter. IOTA Tech Support responded that the higher voltage shouldn't have been used for more than four hours.
I don't use shore power that often, nor do I use generator power that often. Eventually, I'm going to replace the converter. If I put in LiFePO4 batteries, I will certainly replace the converter. I don't want to damage a set of expensive batteries due to being overcharged.
I don't use shore power that often, nor do I use generator power that often. Eventually, I'm going to replace the converter. If I put in LiFePO4 batteries, I will certainly replace the converter. I don't want to damage a set of expensive batteries due to being overcharged.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Bristol, TN.
Jim,
I think we all take power converters for granted despite the fact every so often they throw us a wrinkle. I have seen what you are describing in the past, although it is rare. I am betting few folks have read the instructions that come with their converters. For example, if you go to the WFCO website which is the most commonly installed power converter, you will read that even though it goes through a 14+ VDC cycle you can not read it with a meter given a "VA relationship". I guess I am just too dumb to understand how something can be producing over 14 volts but the meter never showing more than 13.6, but its right there in the manual. I can't even figure out if it working correctly given that scenario other than accept what WFCO says on blind faith.
In any event, in this case you might want to do one more thing and that is switch you meter to the AC setting and see if the converter is "producing any AC ripple" testing just like you would when you measure for volts DC. The ripple will make module boards in components like refrigerators appear to be bad when it is really their power source.
Steve
I think we all take power converters for granted despite the fact every so often they throw us a wrinkle. I have seen what you are describing in the past, although it is rare. I am betting few folks have read the instructions that come with their converters. For example, if you go to the WFCO website which is the most commonly installed power converter, you will read that even though it goes through a 14+ VDC cycle you can not read it with a meter given a "VA relationship". I guess I am just too dumb to understand how something can be producing over 14 volts but the meter never showing more than 13.6, but its right there in the manual. I can't even figure out if it working correctly given that scenario other than accept what WFCO says on blind faith.
In any event, in this case you might want to do one more thing and that is switch you meter to the AC setting and see if the converter is "producing any AC ripple" testing just like you would when you measure for volts DC. The ripple will make module boards in components like refrigerators appear to be bad when it is really their power source.
Steve
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From: Wyoming
I've heard of the ripple thing, but don't understand it. I think I first heard of it on the DIY Solar forum.
My meter definitely showed 14.7 volts. The solar charge controller also showed 14.7 volts, confirming what my meter said. IOTA Tech Support confirmed that the converter isn't operating as it should. At least that was my take. If it was doing a desulfation cycle then I could see 14+ volts, but it's not supposed to last very long. I think my converter is stuck and that's what caused my batteries to go dry.
My meter definitely showed 14.7 volts. The solar charge controller also showed 14.7 volts, confirming what my meter said. IOTA Tech Support confirmed that the converter isn't operating as it should. At least that was my take. If it was doing a desulfation cycle then I could see 14+ volts, but it's not supposed to last very long. I think my converter is stuck and that's what caused my batteries to go dry.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
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From: Bristol, TN.
I've heard of the ripple thing, but don't understand it. I think I first heard of it on the DIY Solar forum.
My meter definitely showed 14.7 volts. The solar charge controller also showed 14.7 volts, confirming what my meter said. IOTA Tech Support confirmed that the converter isn't operating as it should. At least that was my take. If it was doing a desulfation cycle then I could see 14+ volts, but it's not supposed to last very long. I think my converter is stuck and that's what caused my batteries to go dry.
My meter definitely showed 14.7 volts. The solar charge controller also showed 14.7 volts, confirming what my meter said. IOTA Tech Support confirmed that the converter isn't operating as it should. At least that was my take. If it was doing a desulfation cycle then I could see 14+ volts, but it's not supposed to last very long. I think my converter is stuck and that's what caused my batteries to go dry.
Now throughout all of those readings 13.6 VDC is steady, but there is a lot going on "below the surface". That way I know the output is dropping off like it should. I wonder how many amps your converter is putting out at 14.7. At that level it will certainly cook your batteries.
Steve
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From: Wyoming
Completely agree. What I was saying is I wonder if that is all that is the matter with it. I always add amps to the mix as it gives a better picture. For example, my converter will show a steady 13.6 volts, but that doesn't really show the output. Using my meter I see it goes to 25 - almost 29 amps for four hours than drops to about 7 amps and then floats at .5 amps depending on the state of discharge (this is with no load other than parasitics".
Now throughout all of those readings 13.6 VDC is steady, but there is a lot going on "below the surface". That way I know the output is dropping off like it should. I wonder how many amps your converter is putting out at 14.7. At that level it will certainly cook your batteries.
Now throughout all of those readings 13.6 VDC is steady, but there is a lot going on "below the surface". That way I know the output is dropping off like it should. I wonder how many amps your converter is putting out at 14.7. At that level it will certainly cook your batteries.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Bristol, TN.
Jim,
I had this additional thought and was wondering about the age and condition of the batteries. I know you emailed with Iota, but I am wondering how the charger might read a battery that is failing. You do know the charger was throttling back given a 1. something output so it is about at float level. I don't know what your battery system is, but if it is 12s in parallel, I would try charging one than the other and see if the charger behaves the same for both.
What I have found with converter tech support is they basically just parrot and at times I was told things that were just off-the-wall. I wouldn't want to see you spring for a new charger unnecessarily.
Steve
I had this additional thought and was wondering about the age and condition of the batteries. I know you emailed with Iota, but I am wondering how the charger might read a battery that is failing. You do know the charger was throttling back given a 1. something output so it is about at float level. I don't know what your battery system is, but if it is 12s in parallel, I would try charging one than the other and see if the charger behaves the same for both.
What I have found with converter tech support is they basically just parrot and at times I was told things that were just off-the-wall. I wouldn't want to see you spring for a new charger unnecessarily.
Steve
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
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From: Bristol, TN.
Jim,
Being obsessive I have been reading through the technical stuff on the IOTA site and found the notation that a shorted battery cell will keep the converter from dropping out of 14.1 VDC, but it doesn't sound like that from your description of your batteries. Other than that I am out of ideas.
Steve
Being obsessive I have been reading through the technical stuff on the IOTA site and found the notation that a shorted battery cell will keep the converter from dropping out of 14.1 VDC, but it doesn't sound like that from your description of your batteries. Other than that I am out of ideas.
Steve
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From: Wyoming
I can't trust this converter, so it isn't going to stay in my RV. I don't use it all that much, so I'm in no hurry. I don't think I'm going with IOTA for the next one. I need to make sure that the next one can handle both flooded lead acid and LiFePO4. That's what was attractive about IOTA. With an inexpensive change to an external module I could switch between FLA and LiFePO4 charging strategies.
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I think the IOTA converter started to work correctly. I was working on the system and disconnected 12v power between the battery and the rest of the system. An hour later I reconnected it and checked what the charge voltage was at the battery and it was a normal float voltage, not the 14.7 I saw earlier.
My LiFePO4 batteries are now in place and I did go with IOTA for the new LiFePO4-specific converter. There is a "feature" of the LiFePO4 charge profile that has a few folks in the solar forum questioning the IOTA algorithm. The bulk mode runs at 14.6 volts until the battery hits the target voltage, or 120 minutes has elapsed, whichever comes first. They don't like the 120 minute period.
My solar panels will charge the batteries 99% of the time, so I'm not too concerned about the charge profile of the converter. I can't see a situation where I would run the generator for a long enough period that the converter would switch to float.
My LiFePO4 batteries are now in place and I did go with IOTA for the new LiFePO4-specific converter. There is a "feature" of the LiFePO4 charge profile that has a few folks in the solar forum questioning the IOTA algorithm. The bulk mode runs at 14.6 volts until the battery hits the target voltage, or 120 minutes has elapsed, whichever comes first. They don't like the 120 minute period.
My solar panels will charge the batteries 99% of the time, so I'm not too concerned about the charge profile of the converter. I can't see a situation where I would run the generator for a long enough period that the converter would switch to float.
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