I finally got tired of cleaning the corrosion , so I bought one of these batteries today . I got 20% off as well as a $30 rebate . I like the 5 yr. replacement warranty . I'm just curious if any of you guys have any feedback on them . Thanks
https://www.batteriesplus.com/produc...sel/sli65agmdp

 

My fire department uses them in all of our trucks. They are a great battery and the warranty is no questions asked. I'll say our trucks kill them about ever 18 months, then we get a free replacement and that'll last about 18 months. BUT we run an extreme amount of accessories and there is constant draw on the battery for charging our laptops and what not. For what we put them through they are great, for your use you'll be very pleased.

 

That's the kind of feedback I was hoping for !!!!

 

Your sig says you have a 6.7L diesel (which utilizes two batteries in parallel). Yet your post says you "bought one of these batteries today".

Best practice in parallel battery set ups is to have both batteries be the same type, size, age, and chemistry.

 

He says batteries, plural, so I’m assuming he bought two. That’s a decent price for AGM group 65.

 

That's the best free replacement warranty I've seen. Why only 1, don't you need 2?

I run the Diehard Platinum AGM(no longer sold) batteries in my Toyotas, they had a 4 year free replacement warranty that was better than most, and were supposedly a relabeled Odyssey (another good brand) . I have one that is giving up after 9 years, so I was looking at batteries too. That X2 is more than I'm willing to spend on the Toyota though.

Anyway, now I look at the battery cases when shopping and will notice the same case used with various different labels. That X2 visually and spec wise, looks like the NorthStar, although the NorthStar only has a 4 year warranty.

 

This is what he said, "so I bought one of these batteries today"

 

He said "one of these batteries".

 

I think just an englishing thing, perhaps only one, but maybe he noticed there are two when opening the hood. Waiting to see if the OP clarifies.

 

did you get 20% off the $309 price? And the $30 rebate?

 

Diehard Platinum was a relabeled Odyssey
X2 is made by Northstar
EnerSys who owns Odyssey just bought Northstar in October so they are basically all the same at this point.

 

That was my understanding as well. Funny how they are basically the same, but offer different warranties. I just ordered a Delphi AGM for my Toyota, apears to be the same as many different labeled batteries but some have an 18 month, 24 month, and 3 year warranty depending on brand.

 

That's a good deep discharge battery so it would be excellent in an isolated accessory position like bed campers and such......they don't lock out when cold like ion batteries and they don't shut off at a predetermined voltage like ion batteries ....price is about a third of ion batteries.


But...in the starting position of our trucks it would be a case by case analysis if two of these in the start position at a cost of 600 bucks would provide any value over two standard batteries at 100 bucks each.


Keep us posted

 

Looking at the battery cases usually is a good clue, but not always. For example, some smaller battery manufacturers will buy the same plastic cases (by the case, haha) from battery case suppliers that larger battery manufacturers use.

One example of this involves the battery discussed in this thread... a Group 65 battery made by Northstar, and sold by Batteries Plus as the X2 Power. The same case used in these two batteries is also used by a boutique lithium polymer battery company that is unrelated to Northstar or X2 Power, but uses the identical battery case to house an ultra light 15 lb Group 65 size battery that costs more than $1,000, each.

So same case is often a clue, but not always a certainty that the battery manufacturer is the same. And even in cases where the battery manufacturer is the same, the same case does not mean that the battery itself is manufactured in the same manner (ie, the plate to plate connections can differ, the separators can differ, the number of plates can differ, etc... all within the same case).

In this case (haha), the X2 Power and Northstar are in fact the same battery, manufactured the same throughout. Northstar offers private label manufacturing/rebranding, and the X2Power offered by Batteries Plus is one example. There are others. However, it should be noted that Northstar offers two different Group 65 AGM batteries under their own brand name, and the manufacturing differs between them. There is a good one, and there is a better one. The X2 Power is identical to Northstar's better one.

As said immediately above, Northstar builds two different "levels" of AGM battery for our application, one being higher quality than the other. But in this instance, this is NOT the case (killing it here) for the difference in warranty between the X2Power, which is 5 years, and the Northstar equivalent, which is only 4 years. What is going on here is that the first four years of the X2Power battery are administrated by Batteries Plus, but actually covered on the backend by Northstar. The fifth and final year is covered by Ascent Battery Supply, LLC, the parent company of Batteries Plus. Ascent shoulders the risk and offers the extra year to encourage buyers to chose their house brand that is only available at Batteries Plus, which is X2Power.

True. Back in 2006, EnerSys agreed to supply Sears with a rebranded Odyssey battery put in a gray colored case that Sears sold as the DieHard Platinum. Sears did the same thing that Ascent did to encourage customers to buy their house label brand, by shouldering some additional risk on the warranty over and above what Enersys offered on the Odyssey, which was 4 years at the time. Sears upped the ante to 8 years... 4 years replacement, + 4 years pro rata. The real kicker was that Sears introduced these batteries for $189.00, and back then, there was still a Sears store in every metropolitan area, open nights and weekends, unlike the 9-5 M-F boutique battery shops that were few and far between and who charged $300+ for the same battery in an orange colored case, plus shipping on two 60 lb objects. The Sears option presented an absolute screaming deal. I immediately put a pair in every truck I owned, and ran them for a decade.

Over the next 8 years, Sears eventually increased their price to $239, and then to $289, and then Sears began to stumble and crumble as a retailer. By the end of the 8 year warranty period initiated in 2007, the relationship between Enersys and Sears devolved to where the last shipment of Enersys built batteries to Sears took place in 2015, if I recall correctly. It was a good run for consumers while it lasted.

The irony is that Northstar was started in 2000 by the chief battery scientist and three executives who all worked for EnerSys at the time. The brain trust of EnerSys basically left EnerSys, went down the street, and started Northstar. Now 20 years later, EnerSys pays 200 million dollars to buy (back) the business begun by their own former employees.

Even though manufactured under one corporate ownership now, the internal features and specifications within each brand and label of battery can differ, or be the same, depending on which brand label.

As these are the only types of batteries I use or recommend, I prepared the following summary of differences between them last year, prior to the EnerSys acquisition of Northstar, the effects of which have not likely manifested in products yet.

Some say the heavier a lead acid battery is, the more lead is inside, and thus, the better battery it must be.

The following six batteries are all AGM recombinant type, rather than wet cells. But they are still made of lead, and are still considered lead acid, even though the acid is absorbed into fiberglass matting, rather than sloshing around as a liquid.

Take a look at how manufacturer reported battery weight mostly does, but occasionally doesn't, directly correlate with better, negligible, or the same electrical performance specifications:


Nominal Manufacturer Reported Weight:
58 lbs. Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 (As claimed by mfr, but the equivalent Odyssey Extreme used to also be listed as 58 lbs, but since 2016 has been listed as 54 lbs.)
55 lbs. Northstar NSB-AGM65 (As claimed by mfr.)
54 lbs. Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 (I personally verified 4 Odyssey Extremes manufactured in March of 2019 on a digital scale, and each weighed 54.4 lbs)
52 lbs. Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) (52.45 lbs)
50 lbs. Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 (49.8 lbs)
49 lbs. Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 (Northstar curiously omitted all references to battery weight for the Elite on their website as well as in the pdf spec file)

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) 30 seconds @ 0°F (-18°C) per Cold Start Performance S.A.E Standard J537 as ratified by the SAE in JUNE 82:
950 CCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 950 CCA
950 CCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 950 CCA
930 CCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 930 CCA
930 CCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 930 CCA
762 CCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 762 CCA
675 CCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 675 CCA

Short Circuit Current:
5,000 Amps Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 5,000 Amps
5,000 Amps Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 5,000 Amps
5,000 Amps Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 5,000 Amps
3,300 Amps BatteriesPlus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 3,300 Amps
2,500 Amps Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 2,500 Amps
0,000 Amps Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Reserve Capacity in Minutes with 25 Ampere sustained load at 80° F (27°C) until voltage drops to 1.75 vpc (10.50V battery voltage)
145 Min Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 145 Minutes
145 Min Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 145 Minutes
135 Min BatteriesPlus X2Power SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 135 Minutes
135 Min Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 135 Minutes
134 Min Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 134 Minutes
129 Min Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 129 Minutes

Capacity at 20 HOUR Rate - Ah Capacity / # of Amps per Hour for 20 Hours Extended Discharge at 77°F (25°C) to 10.02V or 1.67 vpc
74 Ah / 3.70 Amps Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 74 Ah / 3.70 Amps
74 Ah / 3.70 Amps Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 74 Ah / 3.70 Amps
69 Ah / 3.45 Amps Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 69 Ah (However, Northstar claims to calculate Ah rate at the ResMin standard, to a discharged cell voltage of 1.75 vpc vs 1.67 vpc)
69 Ah / 3.45 Amps Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 69 Ah / 3.45 Amps
64 Ah / 3.20 Amps Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 64 Ah / 3.20 Amps
00 Ah / 0.00 Amps Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Internal Resistance at 1 kHz @ 77°F (25°C)
2.0 mΩ Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 2.0 mΩ
2.0 mΩ Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 2.0 mΩ
2.3 mΩ Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 2.3 mΩ
3.3 mΩ Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 3.3 mΩ
3.3 mΩ Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 3.3 mΩ
X.X mΩ Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) 30 seconds @ 32°F (0°C)
1,070 MCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,070 MCA
1,070 MCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,070 MCA
1,070 MCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = Stated only as "CA", and therefore could be HCA, so MCA is assumed based on Northstar NSB equivalent
1,070 MCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 1,070 MCA
0,891 MCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 891 MCA
0,770 MCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 770 MCA

Hot Cranking Amps (HCA) 30 seconds @ 80°F (27°C)
1,350 HCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,350 HCA
1,350 HCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,350 HCA
1,200 HCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 1,200 HCA
0,000 HCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = No Data
0,000 HCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = No Data
0,000 HCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Pulse Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA) 5 seconds @ 80°F (27°C)
1,750 PHCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,750 PHCA
1,750 PHCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,750 PHCA
1,750 PHCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 1,750 PHCA
1,500 PHCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 1,500 PHCA
0,000 PHCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = No Data
0,000 PHCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Warranty (Non Pro Rata)
5 YRS Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 60 Months Full (Fifth full year covered by Ascent Battery Supply LLC, owner of Batteries Plus)
4 YRS Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 48 Months Full
4 YRS Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 48 Months Full
3 YRS Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 36 Months Full
3 YRS Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 36 Months Full
3 YRS Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 36 Months through DOD supply chain


The formerly 58 lb, but now 54 lb. Odyssey Extreme is still about 11.5 lbs heavier than the Varta (formerly owned by Johnson Controls, now owned by Clarios) manufactured AGM in the gray colored case sold under various brand names, depending on wax and oil chain store selling it. I may revisit this thread to provide data on any iterations of those easily identifiable batteries at some point in the future.

Northstar also has a lower price point offering similar to what Enersys does with the Odyssey brand. While Enersys split their TPPL AGM offerings up it into a high (Extreme) and low (Performance) series, Northstar likewise has a high (Northstar) and low (Northstar Elite) series. Yes, the "Elite" is actually a lower performance spec battery, despite the misleading name. I'm sure that is "buy" design, as potential buyers might get excited about acquiring a Northstar "Elite" battery for a lower price than Northstar's "regular" batteries, and immediately pull the trigger.

That's why looking at the specs is useful, and why I post them... to empower people interested in TPPL AGM batteries to see through the subterfuge. If the price is significantly cheaper, then the battery is likely significantly cheaper to manufacture, and what does that mean in terms of specs, and what do those specs mean in terms of battery longevity and performance. In the comparison above, we see that reported manufacturer weight may not be enough to make sufficient assumptions about battery quality, when there is the possibility that manufacturers may not update specifications between different sales channels of the same battery line. Clearly, more parameters need to be compared than just weight, for the reasons explained and illustrated in detail above.

Everyone loves photos, so here are the mugshots of the notorious gang of six TPPL AGM batteries discussed in this post, arranged below in my subjective order of preference when all factors of battery acquisition and replacement are considered, including performance as determined by specifications and some small construction details as described in previous posts. For example, Northstars have brass posts, but Odyssey Extremes go two better, with tin plated brass terminals for even greater corrosion protection, as well as more elevated posts (since 2012) to gain full circumferential face contact with newer style Ford battery cable clamps. Other deciding factors include battery availability, warranty, accessibility of the manufacturer for advice and customer service, ease of return should the warranty need to be exercised, and review history:





Odyssey Extreme 65-PC1750





Batteries Plus X2Power SLI65AGMDP





Northstar NSB-65AGM





Odyssey Performance 65-760




Northstar Elite ELT-65AGM






Hawker MILPC Group 65



As you can see when comparing the performance specifications to my subjective order of preference, there seems to be a bit of disconnect between the Hawker being on par with the Odyssey Extreme, tied in every parameter except weight and warranty, yet the Hawker lies at the bottom of the recommendation photo line up. That is simply due to 1) the restricted availability of the Hawker (limited to those with federal government / military purchase account access), 2) the ultra high margins that DOD vendors typically squeeze out of taxpayer dollars (think $600 hammer), and 3) the limited warranty (only 3 years), and the presumed near impossibility to make good on that warranty due to the manner in which the battery was obtained, if used outside of government business.

A seventh (7th) battery, ironically called the Interstate MT7, would have belonged in the list above, but for the fact that the MT7-65 was discontinued within a year or two of having been introduced. There was no point spending time researching the stats of a battery made of unobtanium, but for what it's worth, the MT7, at 770 CCA, was about on par the lower line Odyssey Performance and Northstar Elite series. Interstate named the replacement to the MT7-65 as the MTZ-65. These could very well be the same battery under a revised model name. But the question is, why was the model name changed? Especially so soon after introduction? Was it due to the dismal reviews of the MT7 in Consumer Reports, which can never be erased from the internet, and which will always be looked upon as gospel by some consumers who are not motor heads like forum followers are? Or were there some production changes, or internal differences, that inspired the name change? These questions might be addressed in a future update, and then the MTZ-65 will be added to this list.


The Delphi AGM battery is not thin plate pure lead. It is made with the same production process used to make Varta batteries. Varta is owned by Clarios, the company that acquired the battery businesses jettisoned by Johnson Controls.

 

Yes , not a bad deal .