You should at least disconnect the generator wires, if it is still 6v.

I asked about the clutch being in because the trans could have bad bearings or be otherwise jammed up.

 

But, does it have a good ground path between the engine and the battery? This can be easily tested with a VOM set on the low voltage scale and connected to the engine block and battery terminal. Crank the engine and observe the reading - it should read zero (zilch) if the continuity is good.

 

Will it burn up the generator perhaps? No relation to the starter issue though.

Clutch was not in during starting no, clutch was out during starting and no gears engaged so should be free.

 

Thanks, I will test this.

 

Yes, the generator and voltage regulator won't like it at all, and it will discharge the 12 volt battery. Seriously, you did that?

 

I did what?

 

Run a 6 volt generator and voltage regulator flashed for positive ground against a 12 volt negative grounded battery? No?

 

I think so, except the 'flashed' bit.

It came with this setup, farm spec.

 

this is bad?

 

Seems this could be the wrong way to go about things.

Is there a 'How to' for a basic 12v neg ground setup DIY?

I am handy enough but auto electrics is not my strong point.

 

I think you're asking the right questions, I'm sure someone here has done what you're working on. I mentioned the polarity and the voltage because while the starter is a universal motor run off of an electromagnet and will adapt to the current flow to always go in one direction, not everything under the hood isn't polarity sensitive. Smoke usually means an overload or a short of some sort. It's possible that some things aren't right.

When I bought my truck it had been partially changed to 12 volt by the previous owner, though I couldn't speak to him about what he did because he was in hospice care and I never met him. It had a 12 volt coil, solenoid, and regulator. I never ran it like that, because I didn't know what he did so when I replaced the old parts I just went with the 6 volt stuff that it came with.

I'm not familiar with crossing the polarity on the regulator, but I know you'll need a resistor on the coil unless you have an internally resisted one. I also know that if you have reversed polarity on the coil that it will reduce the spark enough that it can affect how it runs and starts, especially when cold. I'm not sure how 12 volts will impact the points and condenser. It will damage the gauges in the dashboard.

I'm assuming that you're just trying to get it started right now, to see what you have, and then make decisions about the motor and all at that point, is that fair? In other words, you're looking to spend as little as possible until you know if you have a good motor, then if it's good you might spend some bucks on it then, is what I mean. If that's the case then I'm sure folks will help you get it sorted. If you're looking to be 12 volts, an alternator will be the way to go, and you can eliminate a lot of the wiring that might be causing you some of this trouble. The easiest thing to do would be to just hook up a 6 volt battery to it with positive ground and at least you know all the parts (except the coil) will work. That said, it's silly to pay 120 bucks for a 6 volt battery that you don't plan to use past getting it running.

If you're concerned about the ground to the starter, run a ground cable to it. I have one on mine, can't have too much grounding!

By the way, is it the starter motor smoking, or the wire leading to it?

So, since your original question to the group had nothing to do with the ignition, I'll throw it back out to the group. If it's a polarity issue on some other component that's causing the draw (short) that might be making the motor pull too much amperage, would swapping to positive ground with the 12 volt battery solve that? I've never tried it.

You'll get it figured out, these things aren't too complicated, they just use technology that's old enough that most of us haven't dealt with it before.

Good luck with it!

 

This is what you will need for the cheapest bare bones way to convert from 6 volt positive ground to 12 volts negative ground:
1) A used 12 volt generator and voltage regulator from a later model truck or car. No wiring changes needed.
2) Reverse the primary wires on the coil and add a dropping resistor.
3) Install a voltage reducer for the fuel, temp, and oil pressure gauges.
4) Reverse the direction of the wire that passes through the ammeter loop. (not totally necessary, but your meter won't read backwards).
5) Change all bulbs to 12 volts.
6) 12 volt battery with sufficient CCA.
7) Voltage reducers for electric wipers and heater motor, if equipped
The 6 volt starter motor, starter relay, horn and horn relay will work fine on 12 volts. The horn will sound different.

Installing an alternator will require some wiring and mechanical changes in addition to the items above.

 

Thanks team, all very helpful.

Waiting on another starter now.

Going to pull a plug or two and spin the motor by hand a few revolutions to be certain its not a mechanical lock

 

Was the engine not turning before? I was under the assumption that all was well before the battery swap. I think I would pull ALL of the plugs in case there is a hydraulic lock. Trying to turn over a locked up engine will surely burn out a starter motor. Ya sure, ubetcha!

 

I know you have seen a lot of good information here. If your new starter does the same thing let's try a couple more tests. Assuming 6 volt positive ground
1. Measure your battery voltage . For 6 volt systems it should be 6.3 volts for a fully charged 6 volt battery. Now crank the engine and note the cranking voltage.
2. Looking for excess voltage drop across your starter relay. While you are cranking measure for voltage drop across your battery and starter terminals on your starter relay. Should be almost no voltage showing. If so less than 1/10 of a volt.

3. Next again while cranking, do the test if I recall correctly Mixer Man asked you to do. Measure the voltage drop between the battery positive terminal and the engine block battery ground cable connections. Should be almost no voltage showing. If so less than a 1/10. If more clean and tighten connections. If you see any corrosion near the connectors....replace the cable.

Hopefully we might get more information with what you find out with these tests.