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Could not find the more extreme 400 pistons, but did find a 351c crank with 4.125 swing. Can that fit in a regular production 351c block?
Anyway, when I wanted to build a 400 with factory heads, crank, and rods I went with these pistons from tmeyer pictured. Think they are based around the 400 pistons from cars that had a little better compression then the truck pistons. Never made a hi-po 400 so there are not alot of factory options. Cam is 268 and a quality timing chain set will be used straight up on timing. Home port job on heads.
302 pistons for comparison. Early 90's 5.0 roller motor that is pretty much on the stock side like the 400. Going in a 73 fj40 with c4/dana 20.
If any one ever finds a set of pistons with really thin ring gaps (race track only cars are built with REALLY thin rings, but they are built better then what is made for street and that makes me really want to use them) you can send them to Total Seal (the gapless piston ring company) and they can re-cut ring grooves and provide a wonderful set of rings at the same time.
As I recall the tmeyer stuff had 1/16" ring land and the gap was specd higher than I have ever built any engines to. I am not very smart, but i have built boat engines, truck engines, forklift engines, big diesel caterpillar engines, john deere diesel engines, case engines, big stroker big block sled pull engines, cummins engines, mitsubishi diesel engines perkins diesels, tecumseh engines, yamaha dirtbike engines, honda dirt bike engines, kawasaki dirtbike engines, and probably about a hundred others I have forgotten. His pistons probably hit it hard on the racetrack. I don't go there.
F-250 Warhorse - sorry for your troubles with the TMeyer pistons. I'm happy with mine and I think most others are as well. There is one build in the 335 engine forum where a 400 made nearly 500 lbs./ft. Torque and something like 385HP, not too bad! The reason for the larger than normal ring gaps is the hyperutectic pistons transmit more heat to the rings and they need more gap to expand when hot. If you run a tight ring gap they can close up completely when hot then you can tear up the piston... or at least that's what I've been told.
Wanting or needing heavy pistons for torque is not something I'm familiar with. More than anything else - the CAMSHAFT determines the character of an engine. Proper camshaft selection is key.
Hold on I am not having A bad experience with the product, I am merely suggesting that since the OP wants a TRUCk engine with low end grunt, smooth driveability, off idle torque and hopefully several years of reliability while out in the woods or plains on deer hunting trips. My t meyer 400 gets beat pretty hard, towing over mountain passes in CO hauling firewood and logging equipment up several miles of some of the steepest gravel forest service roads in the country, dust, 100+ degree summer heat, and not to mention we have already seen below zero at my house this fall, Guys Iam not bashing tmeyer pistons. Mine performs very well, but due to the lighter piston, we all know what a lighter rotating assembly does for us at low rpm vs a heavier one especially when we need that little extra oomph down low.
Mine has had a little much blowby since new. The compression is checking out fine hot and cold, even on all cylinders. The power and driveability is fine. I have over 30000 miles on my tmeyer 400 and no reliability issues at all. I just hate blowby. the thing starts fine, runs good, pulls real hard, and runs fine on 85 octane fuel. It is just the simple idea that for what the build is after there might be other options. We don't want a race build with hyper pistons that cant take heat like regular old forged truck pistons can so we open the ring gap some. I would be wiling to make a wager that my t meyer 400 has worked harder in my f250 than any other one.
My point is that for WHAT THE OP WOULD LIKE TO OBTAIN, that I am not certain a t meyer build would be my first recomendation. I am sorry if my previous posts came out unclear. I will build my next build with either offsetting the crank or cleveland pistons. Not to mention the cost of those rather salty t meyer slugs plus the necessary balancing job, are we really saving money? A crank grind should be in the budget anyway for these old engines. but no reason for the balancing expense if we use factory slugs, faster turn around, lower cost, better for a heavy work vehicle.
I gotcha F-250 Warhorse. A balance job is going to happen on my builds anyway, so that isn't an issue for me, but I can see how people might not want to budget for that. I would agree with you that the OP doesn't need to do anything exotic to make an excellent engine. Ditch the multi-groove valves, pick a decent cam, headers, good timing chain set, a four barrel intake and carburetor - and 300HP is yours. It's not very difficult to double the factory HP on these engines.
Any engine that lasts nearly half a century and hundreds of thousands of miles is a VERY GOOD engine, no matter what the "boat anchor 351" morons tell you. I freaking PROMISE you won't see LS, Coyote or any other late model trash running effortlessly on the cheap 40+ years from now, but you'll still find 351C/M/400 still around, firing up with a cup of gas and a fresh battery.
That said, I just put a 400 (406) together ( last M motor was pulled, still running with far north of 300 thousand very hard miles) on the cheap and it's actually TOO POWERFUL for what I need it to do.(cam is too radical for a work truck) but it runs amazing. Definitely a worthwhile build. Idles well, plenty of power, starts fine whether it's 10 degrees or 100 outside, no overheating, and...did I mention it's fast? Freaking AWESOME seeing the look on the "gotta have a modern engine swap" guys faces when they are getting dusted by 50 year old, carbureted technology built for under 4k and tuned with a wrench and a screwdriver Instead of a laptop and a pile of sensors.
My block needed sleeves on 2 cylinders, or I would have had to go 60 over. Kept it at 30 over by sleeving it. 400 crank 20 under, stock pistons, everything balanced,, block zero decked to improve quench, stock heads redone, scorpion 1:73 (460) rockers, ferrea stainless one piece valves, resurfaced, mild porting, comp 270h (do NOT use this cam, it's a hot rod cam, not a truck cam) Eddie performer intake, thunder AVS 650 stock distributor and duals through manifolds. ITS A BEAST. I'm leaving a lot of on the table by using open chamber heads, manifolds instead of headers, and a dual plane intake. Spring time, I'll be putting some closed chamber 2V heads, a smaller dual pattern cam, and a recurved distributor in it to bring it back to work truck mode. It gets a horrifying 9 MPG and uses premium fuel and needs 20 degrees initial to run right as it is in it's current configuration....but a lot of fun to drive and dead nuts reliable like most 351M/400s.
These things are gutless wonders in stock form, (but reliable) but it doesn't take much to get them making decent power.
Long post, but, my point was, I used stock style pistons and a zero decking and milled heads to bring it up near the 9s CR and it made a world of difference.
One more thing: it really IS a 400M. If you don't include "M" behind it at the parts counter, they hand you Windsor parts, 390 parts or Pontiac 400 parts. Always include "M" when you are describing your engine, unless it's another Ford guy, whose first sentence will be: ''Theres no goshdang thing as 400M!" And his second sentence will be: "They doggone junk anyway. Boat anchor!"......both statements of which, are WRONG.
This is my fifth 335 series build. 3 Cleveland's that we're in very fast street/strip musclecars, a 351M in an F-350, this is my first 400 build. I haven't been disappointed or stranded yet.
I mentioned bushing the rods. Thank you for the rhetorical reply. I hope we are helping the OP with useful information. As far as zero decking the block, That is another way to get there. I prefer offset grinding the crank because usually the crank needs ground anyway as well as it gives us more stroke, making more compression, better quench, more CID and we all know how much more off idle torque a long stroke can develop. Furthermore, decking the block has always been an additional operation above the hot tank, bore,hone, grind crank, install new freeze plugs, and torqueplate hone. Just takes more time and more money. As well as the deck on my builds has never checked out of print as far as NEEDING flattening.
Back in 1980 I rolled a new 1980 f350 4x4 SRW off the showroom floor from Galpin Ford in Cali. It was a DOG. It had 4:30 gears and a NP435 trans, it was heavy. We towed a 30 ft Airstream all over the Southwest from many years, and it never let us down. It was slow but it never quit. Fast forward 10 yrs. I decided to rebuild the 400, not that it needed it but I wanted more power. The stock 400 desperately needs two things, compression and advanced cam timing. Add a good intake, carb and exhaust, and it will come to life big time. It doesn't need to be bored, it's already got the bore and stoke for a truck. After those mods my brother and his 460 powered f250 could not keep up with me towing. I hauled that Airstream up through the Eisenhower Tunnel and over Berthoud Pass with ease. I had to wait for my brother and his 460 at the top. Hail Destroyer said it best about the 400. "Any engine that lasts nearly half a century and hundreds of thousands of miles is a VERY GOOD engine, no matter what the "boat anchor 351" morons tell you. I freaking PROMISE you won't see LS, Coyote or any other late model trash running effortlessly on the cheap 40+ years from now, but you'll still find 351C/M/400 still around, firing up with a cup of gas and a fresh battery". Having said all that I have 1978 Bronco with a 351M, and it's a dog. It's always ready to go, buts it's a dog. Completely stock. Now if it weren't for the smog police here in Cali I would perk up that 351M with some Australian heads and a cam. My only way out is a swap. It damn sure will not be an LS. I was all set to drop in a Coyote and 6R80, but I don't like the route Ford has taken with those aluminum blocks. So I'm going a 6.2 Raptor v8 with the 6R80. The 6.2 was designed to be a truck engine with power down low where you need it. The Raptor motor is the reincarnation of the 400 with a computer and fuel injection. Oh and it's a cast iron block.
"offset grinding"? Think that is what I'm trying to do! But the mention of a longer stroke does not make sense to me, and how could I check my work on a 8 cylinder crank. I made a stand for a 4 cylinder because I can get the weight close before it goes in a balancer. Trying to figure out where to add weight to half balanced crankshaft is really hard and can't imagine how to do it on a 8 cylinder.
Just did a google search for offset grinding. I'm not welding journals (which adds stroke, it now makes sense,sorry), seems I'm just trying to make a balanced crankshaft when there was never a factory one.
"offset grinding"? Think that is what I'm trying to do! But the mention of a longer stroke does not make sense to me, and how could I check my work on a 8 cylinder crank. I made a stand for a 4 cylinder because I can get the weight close before it goes in a balancer. Trying to figure out where to add weight to half balanced crankshaft is really hard and can't imagine how to do it on a 8 cylinder.
Welding and offset grinding a crank is an old school way to make a stroker. It works well. BUT it is NOT a DIY project. You need special welding materials and techniques to weld cast, and you need to machine the crank, grind it and reweld it through a couple of go arounds to make sure you don't have voids in the welds. It must then be balanced.
As far as heavy pistons vs. light pistons--the reciprocating part of the engine does not add to or subtract from torque or inertia. I think what's mentioned above might be low end flywheel effect, and that is left up to the mass of the crank and the weight of the flywheel.
As mentioned, the cam dictates where the power stops and starts. An aggressive cam will be soft off idle.
If the pistons and rings are fitted correctly and intended for street use, you should have a very good chance of a proper break in, ring seal, low oil use, low blow-by and good power.
Thanks for all the replies guys! this build is taking a small turn from the original plan. It seems the budget is allowing for a set of trickflow 195 heads and a roller cam!. Im still wanting to keep the power where it belongs in a truck but now therell be more of it. Im very interesting in the 351C piston idea. lots more options out there. Is it as easy as bushing the rods? if thats the case, i think im sold. I still want to stay around 9.5:1 to use pump gas without any issues.
You’ll now have closed chamber heads so make sure you get your piston to head quench correct. You’ll be hard pressed to find a 351c piston that has quench and enough dish to stay at 9.5:1. It takes 30+ cc dish to be at 9.5:1 with 60cc chambers.
aluminum heads can support more compression than iron though
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