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Had the plugs out this morning and they actually look pretty decent. I think the carburetor a Holley 2 bbl. I’m still young and learning and therefore don’t know Jack squat about carburetors other than the basic principles. I also measured the stroke today. It came out to 3.984 exactly so it looks like the seller’s claims were right about it being a 410. Very exciting.
3.98 stroke, that can be a good thing or not so good depending on a lot of stuff. You are going to really need to do some detective work before you drive it very much. First the 3.98 stroke engines the 410 and 428 had 10.5-1 compression. Not exactly pump gas friendly in an FE depending on the cam that's in it.
That plug from what I can see is running way to hot. Only the first one or two threads should be burnt but it also looks like it has been in there for a longtime. I would get some new ones for it. No hotter than BF42's and maybe one heat range colder until you figure out what you have.
Get the casting numbers off the heads and post them you will find them between #2&3 and 6&7 sparkplugs.
I don't want to type a book here so first things first. You really need to figure out what your dynamic compression is and the only way to do that without taking the engine apart is while you are at the parts house buying plugs borrow a compression tester. Do a compression test it should have instructions with it. Write it down and post it. Me or somebody here will do the math in reverse to get a ball part number for the dynamic compression. 8 to 1 dynamic is about the limit for burning 91 oct unleaded.
The 351 Cleveland in my truck has 10.2-1 static compression and with the cam timing I have it is 7.9-1 dynamic and the cranking compression is 160 to 162 lbs. With those numbers it will only run on 93 oct. unleaded.
The 351 Cleveland in my truck has 10.2-1 static compression and with the cam timing I have it is 7.9-1 dynamic and the cranking compression is 160 to 162 lbs. With those numbers it will only run on 93 oct. unleaded.
10.2 is really high for a Cleveland. Do you have quench heads? Only early 4V heads and Australian 2V heads had quench chambers (and of course aftermarket heads). All FE factory heads had a lot more quench area, which allows a lower octane gas (relatively speaking). However, if he has the stock 10.5:1 static compression, I would run the highest octane gas you can find and maybe even add some octane boost. I would also start with no more than 6 degrees initial timing. X2 on the compression test recommendation, who knows what cam is in there.
10.2 is really high for a Cleveland. Do you have quench heads? Only early 4V heads and Australian 2V heads had quench chambers (and of course aftermarket heads). All FE factory heads had a lot more quench area, which allows a lower octane gas (relatively speaking). However, if he has the stock 10.5:1 static compression, I would run the highest octane gas you can find and maybe even add some octane boost. I would also start with no more than 6 degrees initial timing. X2 on the compression test recommendation, who knows what cam is in there.
Yes, I have closed chamber 1971 heads with Keith Black pistons. The stock 1971, 4V Clevelands were 10.7-1 according to Ford. I do not believe they actually were that that high since all the ones I have fooled with calculated out to around 10.2 to 10.3-1. I just picked a cam that put the intake valve on the seat at 67 degrees ABDC to get the dynamic as close to 8-1 as I could without going over. I run 16 degrees initial timing with another 22 degrees centrifugal all in at 2850 rpm. No problems with detonation or preignition as long as it gets 93 oct. fuel. All that said the 351 Cleveland with 4v heads is a whole different animal than an FE.
I'm interested to know what heads he has and the cranking compression is on his engine.
That's hard to make out but I'm guessing that is a 4. So C4AE-G heads would be 73-76 cc chambers. Those would be the stock heads for your truck. Now all this is a guess since we don't know the bore or which pistons they put in there. But if it a 4.05 bore and they used pistons for a 410 you are going to be a solid 10-1 compression. Doing a compression check to see what the cranking compression is, will be the only way to get a solid reading on the actual dynamic compression. If you are lucky maybe who ever built it saw the handwriting on the wall and built it for unleaded fuel, by either using dished pistons or picking a cam that put the intake valve on the seat late enough to reduce the dynamic compression. In my limited experience if the cranking compression is in the 150 psi range it will burn 87-89 oct, if it is 160-165 psi it needs 93 oct. and over that you may need octane booster or race fuel .
So I wonder if that mean the HD brakes were only available as an option even on the Camper Specials in '66? When I was gathering parts for my f250, I called a wrecking yard in Minnesota and told them I wanted the spindles and hubs for the HD 12 x 2.5" brakes.
I told them they were in '66 to '69 F250s with a 7500 GVWR (I didn't include the '71 and '72 because disc brakes became optional. ).
Dual piston caliper disc brakes were optional for 1968/72 F250 2WD & F350. With discs, the F250 2WD's rear brakes are 12" x 2 1/2."
12" x 2 1/2" front/rear drum brakes were introduced in 1966, came standard equipment with 7,500 lbs. GVWR .. All 1956/65, and other 1966/72 F250 2WD's came with 12 1/8" x 2" front/rear drum brakes
No they weren't cheap, but the truck was down to rebuild the brakes, suspension, steering, re-gasket the engine, replace the cam, lifters, intake, carb, transmission and rear axle. Waiting for custom shoes had zero impact on the schedule. Eventually we both will need to change the shoes. I'm willing to bet my ceramic matrix shoes will far outlast asbestos, and the dust isn't toxic. And on top of that, I get 4 cents change when I stop on a dime.
You have a very valid point and since I would be buying cores and sending them out, while I'm still driving, the time isn't really an issue. Do you mind telling me what you paid? In a PM if you wish.
C'mon no matter what you pay for them they were cheap, they are the right tool for the job which is basically the most important system on the vehicle, even a sickly little leaky six cylinder with bad compression can get you up to speeds that without good brakes in the right situation can kill you in a heartbeat. Lots of people talk about buying chrome emblems for $300 for their trucks how can you worry about the cost of brake shoes?
However a counterpoint is I bought good quality brand name asbestos shoes that were not very expensive and as my intent is to drive this modestly as a daily driver and workhorse maybe putting 5K a year on it at most, with new cylinders, new copper nickel lines, a rebuilt master cylinder and no problem putting my foot into it I can not imagine that the stock brakes are going to have any problem performing adequately in any situation that I will put them in.
Just sayin'
You have a very valid point and since I would be buying cores and sending them out, while I'm still driving, the time isn't really an issue. Do you mind telling me what you paid? In a PM if you wish.
musclecarbrakes
The 11 x 3 shoes I'm using are listed in the above link for $198. When I ordered mine I don't think they were listed on the website.
Originally Posted by Cheddar
C'mon no matter what you pay for them they were cheap, they are the right tool for the job which is basically the most important system on the vehicle, even a sickly little leaky six cylinder with bad compression can get you up to speeds that without good brakes in the right situation can kill you in a heartbeat. Lots of people talk about buying chrome emblems for $300 for their trucks how can you worry about the cost of brake shoes?
You're absolutely right. IIRC you have a F350 right? So you have larger brakes than the wimpy 11 x 2 front brakes on an F100, so that probably helps. I dove my truck with the stock brakes from California back to Maryland. They were OK as long as I didn't need to stop in a hurry. I had a couple of near misses though where I had to stand on the brakes with all my might. I decided they had to be better for a daily driver. I replaced everything except the pedal with new parts, including later model 11 x 3 drums and added an original booster. It's a night and day difference. I don't give the brakes a second thought anymore.
What all did it take to put 11" x 3" drums on your truck? I know I can tell the difference between my F250 and F100 and would love more shoe on the front.
What all did it take to put 11" x 3" drums on your truck? I know I can tell the difference between my F250 and F100 and would love more shoe on the front.
I used the beefier standard F250 spindles, backing plates and hubs from a '68-72 F100 as Bill stated, and new drums. Although you could re-use your original hubs and spindles, the studs would not stake properly on the new drums that I bought. when I switched to the later hubs and standard F250 spindles, they snugged up nice and tight.
Edit: I also upgraded the rear shoes to the larger 2 1/4 x 11 from a '68 up F100/F150. I used the later backing plates and had custom axles made with the correct offset. I had the axles custom made for the 31 spline nodular 3rd member, so it was a no brainer to make them a little longer for the wider brakes at the same time.
Last edited by 66v8baby; 12-02-2019 at 06:43 AM.
Reason: more information
Did the compression test today and needless to say I’m a little confused. The readings showed 15 psi higher on the driver side. Did I do something wrong?
I also replaced the plugs and gapped then to .034 and now she won’t start. Cranks fine so I Poured some motivation down the carb and it kicked over a couple times then nothing. The only thing I did was disconnect the fuel at the filter and run the line down into a gas can for the compression test
Make sure you got the firing order correct when you put the new plugs in. Also you mention it will start when you put starting fluid in then it dies? I remember when i couldnt get my truck to start i would pour a little gas into the carb and it would run a little then die. I had the carb rebuilt and she ran like a top. If i remember right the float inside the carb was the main problem.
11-27-2019, 05:40 AM
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