Notices

302 build options

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 26, 2019 | 12:31 AM
  #31  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Rusty_S
For the Crane 449541 hydraulic roller I will be running a brand new cardone dist with a steel gear for a 85 mustang that will work with any DS II ignition system. Crane told me a stock steel gear will work with this cam when I asked.

Valve spring I got is a swap for the standard 8017 valve spring for the 8016 valve spring which AFR said is the closest match they have to the recommended Crane valve spring.

When it comes to valve springs you have to go with what the cam manufacturer recommends.

So the spring you get is 8017 from afr ?
I can get any distributor designed for my EFI ? Or any other recomendations for better unit?
 
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2019 | 12:34 AM
  #32  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Rusty_S
For the Crane 449541 hydraulic roller I will be running a brand new cardone dist with a steel gear for a 85 mustang that will work with any DS II ignition system. Crane told me a stock steel gear will work with this cam when I asked.

Valve spring I got is a swap for the standard 8017 valve spring for the 8016 valve spring which AFR said is the closest match they have to the recommended Crane valve spring.

When it comes to valve springs you have to go with what the cam manufacturer recommends.

Those sorings are gor flat tappet cams. Are you sure thats what they recomends ?

8017 is for flat tappet cams and rated as 360 lbs
8016 is for hydraulic roller cam and rated as 410 lbs.

Which is the right one ?
 
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2019 | 01:32 AM
  #33  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Will stock fuel injectors will be enough for added hp ?
 
Reply
Old Oct 27, 2019 | 08:09 PM
  #34  
Rusty_S's Avatar
Rusty_S
Lead Driver
15 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Liked
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
Originally Posted by monstrs
So the spring you get is 8017 from afr ?
I can get any distributor designed for my EFI ? Or any other recomendations for better unit?
Yes the #1399 Renegade heads for the small block Windsor platform comes standard with the #8017 valve springs with the following listing for them.

"PAC Racing Spring 1.290" OD Hydraulic Roller Dual Valve Spring, 140 lbs on seat, .600" maximum lift, Max RPM 6300-6500"

The ones I upgraded to was the #8016 valve springs.

"AFR's 8016 spring is built for use with solid flat tappet cam shafts operating up to 7200 RPM. 1.550" OD Solid Flat Tappet Dual Valve Spring, 140 lbs on seat, .650" maximum lift, Max RPM 7200-7400"

Reason I was recommended the #8016 springs is as follows which is a exact copy from the email I got from AFR.

The standard installed #8017 spring package does not have enough open pressure when compared to the provided Crane #44308-1 springs.

However, I have a spring package that will work - #8016 springs are 385 lbs. open @ .560” lift (the crane springs calculate to 375 lbs. open @ .560” lift) a very close match.

In order to ensure that the heads come equipped with the #8016 springs you will need to use exchange number #8603 with the cylinder head part number and you will be good to go.


For yours being EFI if you get a dist for your application with a steel gear you will be fine with a lot of the camshafts out there but be sure to verify. The 85 302 mustang was the last year of carbed setup with the HO roller motors which is what I needed for my '82 truck as I want to retain DS II ignition system. I don't believe DSII would give me any problems up to 5,500 rpm. Only thing that remains to be seen is the 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 compression if it will cause a issue with the ignition system but I do plan on running the recommended spark plugs as a starting point at the OE gap and go from there.
 
Reply
Old Oct 27, 2019 | 08:15 PM
  #35  
Rusty_S's Avatar
Rusty_S
Lead Driver
15 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Liked
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
Originally Posted by monstrs
Will stock fuel injectors will be enough for added hp ?
May or may not. I am not too big on fuel injection upgrading in this sense. The only experience I have is with the aftermarket fuel injection systems such as the Holley Sniper and FiTech which I prefer the Sniper setup as it has way better instructions and seems to set up properly without problems.
 
Reply
Old Oct 28, 2019 | 12:07 AM
  #36  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
If i do not change the heads. Jaut the cam from ceane, what springs should i get 8017, 8016 or other ? Cant find spec for this cam and which spring is recomended
 
Reply
Old Oct 28, 2019 | 06:02 PM
  #37  
Conanski's Avatar
Conanski
FTE Legend
15 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Community Builder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
Likes: 1,499
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Originally Posted by monstrs
Will stock fuel injectors will be enough for added hp ?
Yes... as long as you only do the cam and exhaust. Summit racing has springs listed for the cam under the additional parts tab
 
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2019 | 12:37 AM
  #38  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
How bad/good is my bottom end ?
When driving for a while oil pressure drops to around 25 when driving in city. About 8-10 when sitting in traffic. And about 15-18 when driving still in overdrive in city around 35 mph.
Do i need valve seats, shims for the valve springs ?
 
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

 Verdad Gallardo
story-1

Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

 Brett Foote
story-3

Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

 Brett Foote
story-5

Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-6

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

 Verdad Gallardo
story-7

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

 Brett Foote
story-9

2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

 Michael S. Palmer
Old Oct 31, 2019 | 09:10 AM
  #39  
baddad457's Avatar
baddad457
Hotshot
20 Year Member
Liked
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by monstrs
Today drove a little bit more and when its hot getting back from higway oil pressure reads from 13 at traffic to 28 while driving in town. Is it ok or should i better rebuild bottom end too ?
That's not good pressure. It's reading at the front of the block near the pump. The problem you'll have first is the rod bearings on #'s 4 & 8 cylinders, these are probably at or near zero PSI with those numbers at the front. And as Conanski stated, you don't want solid roller lifters in a daily driver, these have to be adjusted periodically and there's no adjustment for them with E7 heads. So unless you install rocker studs in those heads, solid lifters are out of the question. One more thing is piston choice. 302/5.0 pistons come in pin heights from 1.585 to 1.620, the taller the better as far as compression goes. Make certain of this before buying pistons. If you can get a 351 to swap in, that'll give you the most power increase without changing fuel mileage. Going to 4.10's in the rear may or may not affect your fuel mileage, which I'd think is very important in Europe (that's where you are, right?) Gas here is 2-3 dollars a gallon, so it's not a big deal. You will also need a steel geared distributor with a roller cam, fortunately with EFI, there were lots of applications you can find these in for yours, I'm thinkin you have a TFI distributor already, so either change the gear to steel or source one for the same year Mustang. I would check the bushings in your distributor first before trying to swap gears. I grabbed an extra with a roller 351 block the other day, but found when I got home the bushings were toast in it. Good thing I got it for free.
 
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2019 | 09:56 AM
  #40  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by baddad457
That's not good pressure. It's reading at the front of the block near the pump. The problem you'll have first is the rod bearings on #'s 4 & 8 cylinders, these are probably at or near zero PSI with those numbers at the front. And as Conanski stated, you don't want solid roller lifters in a daily driver, these have to be adjusted periodically and there's no adjustment for them with E7 heads. So unless you install rocker studs in those heads, solid lifters are out of the question. One more thing is piston choice. 302/5.0 pistons come in pin heights from 1.585 to 1.620, the taller the better as far as compression goes. Make certain of this before buying pistons. If you can get a 351 to swap in, that'll give you the most power increase without changing fuel mileage. Going to 4.10's in the rear may or may not affect your fuel mileage, which I'd think is very important in Europe (that's where you are, right?) Gas here is 2-3 dollars a gallon, so it's not a big deal. You will also need a steel geared distributor with a roller cam, fortunately with EFI, there were lots of applications you can find these in for yours, I'm thinkin you have a TFI distributor already, so either change the gear to steel or source one for the same year Mustang. I would check the bushings in your distributor first before trying to swap gears. I grabbed an extra with a roller 351 block the other day, but found when I got home the bushings were toast in it. Good thing I got it for free.
Thank your the answer.
How bad is that pressure? How long can i live with it ?
I think i will stay with 302 fir now. Too many changes swping to 351. If i rebuild bottom end what should i get piston wise ? Crank? Piston rings ? Piston rods ? What compression i should aim if i am mostly driving lpg propane butane mix? It likes AFR 16 to 17 best. Other guys near me with similar engines and lpg has about 14 initial timing. I have 10 right now. I can get new distributor with steel gear. Which brand is better ?
 
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2019 | 01:54 PM
  #41  
baddad457's Avatar
baddad457
Hotshot
20 Year Member
Liked
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by monstrs
Thank your the answer.
How bad is that pressure? How long can i live with it ?
I think i will stay with 302 fir now. Too many changes swping to 351. If i rebuild bottom end what should i get piston wise ? Crank? Piston rings ? Piston rods ? What compression i should aim if i am mostly driving lpg propane butane mix? It likes AFR 16 to 17 best. Other guys near me with similar engines and lpg has about 14 initial timing. I have 10 right now. I can get new distributor with steel gear. Which brand is better ?
Run it too hard and the #'s 4 & 8 will sieze up. Those are at the end of the line in the oil galleries. The pressure port is just downstream from the pump and filter. Can't answer on the propane question. Never ran the stuff in a vehicle. The pistons you'd want to keep the comp ratio up is those flat tops with as close to a 1.620 pin (compression) height as you can get. The 1.585's yield about a point lower but I don't have a calculator handy to do the numbers. That difference is about 8 ccs volume. I know propane is drier than gasoline so they're more sensitive to oiling issues with the cylinder walls.
 
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2019 | 01:58 PM
  #42  
monstrs's Avatar
monstrs
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by baddad457
Run it too hard and the #'s 4 & 8 will sieze up. Those are at the end of the line in the oil galleries. The pressure port is just downstream from the pump and filter. Can't answer on the propane question. Never ran the stuff in a vehicle. The pistons you'd want to keep the comp ratio up is those flat tops with as close to a 1.620 pin (compression) height as you can get. The 1.585's yield about a point lower but I don't have a calculator handy to do the numbers. That difference is about 8 ccs volume. I know propane is drier than gasoline so they're more sensitive to oiling issues with the cylinder walls.
Would more thicker oil will help with oil pressure ?
Where is that piston number found ?
What is better piston forged or Hypereutectic ? Should i bore cylinders to 4.030 ?
 
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2019 | 02:18 PM
  #43  
baddad457's Avatar
baddad457
Hotshot
20 Year Member
Liked
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by monstrs
Would more thicker oil will help with oil pressure ?
Where is that piston number found ?
What is better piston forged or Hypereutectic ? Should i bore cylinders to 4.030 ?
Thicker oil would help. Those pistons are the two in the rear of the block. As for boring, that's something you won't know till you open it up and see how much wear there is in the bores. Most of the roller block motors have little to no wear after 100-150 thousand miles, if they've been treated well on maintenance. Don't order pistons till the bores have been mic'd. The machinist has to have them in hand before doing any cylinder boring to get the piston to wall clearances correct. You don't need forged pistons here.
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
monstrs
Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W)
4
Jun 28, 2019 03:07 PM
srsheets
1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
2
Aug 14, 2017 09:48 AM
CRUNKED77FORD
Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W)
4
Jul 2, 2010 06:50 PM
nickmobile67
Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W)
6
Aug 25, 2007 06:20 AM
chrism0
Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W)
4
Jan 14, 2004 10:13 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:15 PM.

story-0
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-30 18:33:59


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

Slideshow: 10 most expensive Ford trucks ever sold on Bring a Trailer.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:24:34


VIEW MORE
story-2
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

Here's everything that has changed for the latest model year.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-27 16:17:28


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

Slideshow: Top 10 Ford truck tragedies.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-18 19:34:33


VIEW MORE
story-4
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

And it might be even better than that.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-18 19:26:42


VIEW MORE
story-5
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Slideshow: Does lowering an F-150 Lobo RUIN the ride quality?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-18 19:20:37


VIEW MORE
story-6
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Slideshow: Ford's bizarre fishing-themed Explorer concept has resurfaced after spending decades largely forgotten.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:07:46


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Slideshow: The 10 best Ford truck engines we miss the most.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 13:09:47


VIEW MORE
story-8
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

Slideshow: first look at the 810 hp 2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road!

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-12 12:50:07


VIEW MORE
story-9
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

Slideshow: Everything You Need to Know about the 2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-07 17:51:06


VIEW MORE