4r100 TC seating help
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Cross-Country
Joined: Nov 2007
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4r100 TC seating help
i got A new TC for my excursion, 4wd, 126k 7.3. I got an eagle 6 stud form racer X. and a billet input shaft and a new pump seal. I cant get the TC to seat. he says with a striaght edge across the bell housing, it should sit 1/8" to 1/4" below. I have been pushing and spinning this thing for 2 hours and I cant get iot to seat. the old one is no prob. and now I cant get my input shaft out either...
its the weekend, so they don't answer the phone... and suggestions?
its the weekend, so they don't answer the phone... and suggestions?
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 52
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so the 1st 2 pictures are the hub shoulder differences. the old one had more of a shoulder.
new TC is blue
more concerning to me tho, is i let a long screwdriver inside the old hub, laid a pair of pliers over the hub and grabbed it. moved to the new hub and when I put it inside, you can see it isn't as deep. its 3/8" off, which would put me ~1/4" below the bell housing if they were the same. any chance the input shaft is bottoming out thus not allowing the new one to seat all the way. I feel the clunk and it drop but its not as deep as the old one. I looked online but I cant find any info as to how deep the hole should be.....
new TC is blue
more concerning to me tho, is i let a long screwdriver inside the old hub, laid a pair of pliers over the hub and grabbed it. moved to the new hub and when I put it inside, you can see it isn't as deep. its 3/8" off, which would put me ~1/4" below the bell housing if they were the same. any chance the input shaft is bottoming out thus not allowing the new one to seat all the way. I feel the clunk and it drop but its not as deep as the old one. I looked online but I cant find any info as to how deep the hole should be.....
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 515
Likes: 6
From: North East Arkansas.
Take the input shaft out of the tranny. Just be easy with it. It will come out again. Then use the input shaft in place of the screwdriver. Check the difference if any with the input shaft. If no difference, try pushing the torque converter on with out the input shaft. QUESTION???. Have you been in the transmission at all???
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Cross-Country
Joined: Nov 2007
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I have not been in the transmission at all yet. I can't get the input shaft out now.... Racer emailed me the below: is the pump a simple swap?
Based on the photos, it looks like the old converter had excessive wear and end play, possibly it’s come apart inside. That would wear the pump and hammer it, possibly explaining the ding in the front of the pump shaft. It that’s a gouge in the hub, it’s been hammering against the pump inside, the photos look like it’s been hammering on the hub end too, the score marks are probably from excess end play or pump wear. If the converter is completely drained and doesn’t have enough ATF residue left inside that would provide a cushion, try shaking it and see if it rattles or you feel the internals move back and forth while shaking it. Has the transmission pan been removed and checked for metal particles?
We’ve covered as much as possible here, you’ll have to talk to the tech dept on Monday if possible, or have a tranny shop inspect it if possible.
Based on the photos, it looks like the old converter had excessive wear and end play, possibly it’s come apart inside. That would wear the pump and hammer it, possibly explaining the ding in the front of the pump shaft. It that’s a gouge in the hub, it’s been hammering against the pump inside, the photos look like it’s been hammering on the hub end too, the score marks are probably from excess end play or pump wear. If the converter is completely drained and doesn’t have enough ATF residue left inside that would provide a cushion, try shaking it and see if it rattles or you feel the internals move back and forth while shaking it. Has the transmission pan been removed and checked for metal particles?
We’ve covered as much as possible here, you’ll have to talk to the tech dept on Monday if possible, or have a tranny shop inspect it if possible.
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More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 515
Likes: 6
From: North East Arkansas.
OK. The pictures you have. Is the some type of lube on the new convertor and the grooves are just a reflection of the outside of the convertor? I notice that (groves) changed locations in the different pictures of the same convertor. If you can not get the input shaft out, your going to have to go in that tranny and get it. It slides in and out Easily. And only installs one direction. The pump is a fairly swap. 1st. Pull the pan cover off the bottom. 2nd inspect the magnet in the bottom of the pan. DO NOT< DO NOT< DO NOT Forget to reinstall the magnet. 3rd. remove the filter simply pulls straight out. Now you can remover the pump. Checking out "Another 4R100 Build" in this forum.. I'm thinking either the pump or the female splines has your input shaft arrested.
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Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Nov 2007
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yes there is assembly lube of some sort on the new TC. Ill talk to him tomorrow. I pulled the pan, few little debris but I think they fell of the outside into the pan when I removed it to be honest. I had a trip 1600 mile trip to Canada planned in T minus 8 days.... this was supposed to be a 2 day project that is now more of course. I have pretty much no tran exp other than changing the filter in the pan and installing a valve body. I do have an external filter which may have helped me, idk if its just adding the pump swap, hopefully i can till make vacay
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 515
Likes: 6
From: North East Arkansas.
i got A new TC for my excursion, 4wd, 126k 7.3. I got an eagle 6 stud form racer X. and a billet input shaft and a new pump seal. I cant get the TC to seat. he says with a striaght edge across the bell housing, it should sit 1/8" to 1/4" below. I have been pushing and spinning this thing for 2 hours and I cant get iot to seat. the old one is no prob. and now I cant get my input shaft out either...
its the weekend, so they don't answer the phone... and suggestions?
its the weekend, so they don't answer the phone... and suggestions?
Thread Starter
|
Cross-Country
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
i got the shaft out. I think just all the pushing and clunking over and over trying to seat it may have just set it in a bit, I've been talking to Racer X - very helpful and nice. great guy! I can get the new TC to seat with out the input shaft, but its a quarter inch from being able to seat with either shaft in.... so Ill see what he says when we talk again
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 515
Likes: 6
From: North East Arkansas.
i got the shaft out. I think just all the pushing and clunking over and over trying to seat it may have just set it in a bit, I've been talking to Racer X - very helpful and nice. great guy! I can get the new TC to seat with out the input shaft, but its a quarter inch from being able to seat with either shaft in.... so Ill see what he says when we talk again
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
so I removed the input shaft and the new TC seated right. I measured and the new and old shaft are the same length. but i put them in the new TC and the old one sticks n the TC an 1/8" more and then I did the same in the Trans and the new one sticks out 1/16" more. so thats 3/16" of an inch which is exactly how much I'm off. so I put the old shaft in the trans and worked it and I got the new TC to seat 1/8" below a straight edge across the face of the bell housing. so maybe the whole issue all along was the input shaft. Ill wait to talk to racer X, but I think Ill just go back with my old input shaft