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Help 5.4l 3v Triton v8

 
  #1  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:18 AM
DreaddMan
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Help 5.4l 3v Triton v8

As the title states I have a 5.4l 3v triton v8 engine in my truck and I need some help.

i am doing the timing job on this truck replacing everything with a Ford OEM kit (phasers, tensioners, guides, chains, Melling oil pump, etc)

this is is my 3rd time tearing the engine down right now to give some history. The first 2 times I did this job I followed the ford tech Makuloco walkthrough on YouTube. Seemingly everything went fine but on the startup the engine would backfire STFT would be high LTFT would be 0 on both banks and then the STFT would go to -20 and it would run horribly. It gave me a p2197 (bank 2 lean) p0198 oil temp.

as far as diagnostics I have hooked up my vacuum leak smoke detector and have not found any, I have tested the PCM and have multiple 5 volt references, I have tested oxygen sensors, fuel pressure, vct solenoids, and maf sensor. Everything is fine according to the diagnostics and the only thing that makes sense is the timing.


i have no idea what I am doing wrong but right now the camshafts have been removed from the engine all of the followers are out and camshafts reinstalled so the engine has basically been stripped of the timing and needs to be reset. I am using the crankshaft positioning tool from ford. Somebody help me out here whatís next?


ALSO before I did any timing work the engine ran fine despite a start up rattle and chain slapping noises through lower rpms, no codes prior to this job. I have also tested the oil temp sensor and wiring. Bank 2 spark plugs do show signs of excessive fuel burning (white on the end of plugs) cylinder leak down test tells me everything is fine. I have picture of my work if needed, I replaced vct solenoids too..
 
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:10 PM
CathedralCub
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There is a lot to untangle here, but I agree that it sounds like a timing issue. It sounds like possibly nothing or little was marked as it came apart . . . ?

Do you have a Ford service manual? They're pretty cheap on Ebay. It would have the proper procedure for this.
 
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:30 PM
DreaddMan
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Nothing was marked as I took it apart what I did was I turned the crankshaft keyway to the 12 to remove 3 followers per head, after that I turned it to the 6 o clock and began removing the timing components. Once the chain tensioners, chains, and guides where removed I removed the camshafts and all of the rocker arms. I installed the camshafts after that and began the retiming process.

The OEM kit from ford has 3 colored links on both chains and the phasers are marked with a R and L for each corresponding bank.

to my knowledge you align the crankshaft keyway to the 11 wth the tool from ford. Then you span the 1 colored link over the crankshaft dot and the 2 over the cam phasers letter. Driver side letter is L and passenger side is R.


i have a Haynes manual 😂

Tool to align crankshaft

Driver side alignment (crankshaft)

Passenger side alignment (crankshaft)
 
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:31 PM
DreaddMan
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nobody has an answer?

If theoretically my timing is correct why then do I have a p0198 for oil temperature when the sensor and connector are fine and why do I have a p2197 for bank 2 lean when I have good FRP and I donít see any vacuum leaks with a smoke tester? This is strange 🙃
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DreaddMan View Post
i have a Haynes manual 😂
Not the best choice or substitute for a Ford WSM

Originally Posted by CathedralCub View Post
Do you have a Ford service manual? They're pretty cheap on Ebay. It would have the proper procedure for this.
Yes---agree 100% here! Since you don't list your year or model the full WSM from Ford can be found on FleaBay, I get them on CD-ROM's for the appropriate year and model. They will come as "expired" discs that simply require changing your PC's system clock to view the info. Once that's done you can copy any procedure to a printable .pdf file that's viewable on a computer without issues related to the disc's "expiration" date.

HTH
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:55 AM
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Since you don't list your year or model

it is a 2004 F150 xlt 2wd crew cab. It has the same 5.4 triton engine used in F150s and expeditions from 04 to I think 2010.

btw I have talked with a couple different mechanics at their shop and they grabbed out a big book (not sure what it was) and showed the same procedure I have been following from the Ford tech channel on YouTube. Also funny enough the Haynes manual does a pretty good job as well despite what people might say.


however I still have this same issue itís not making sense.
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:23 PM
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Yeah, a Haynes manual will do an okay job, and they are a great cheap reference if you keep in mind that they might not cover everything as well as a Ford service manual.

From our perspective here I bet everyone would say to do the same procedure that you are doing . . . so I suspect something is getting missed along the way. Not beating up on you, just it seems you have the steps right while also getting an unusual result.
 
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CathedralCub View Post
Yeah, a Haynes manual will do an okay job, and they are a great cheap reference if you keep in mind that they might not cover everything as well as a Ford service manual.

From our perspective here I bet everyone would say to do the same procedure that you are doing . . . so I suspect something is getting missed along the way. Not beating up on you, just it seems you have the steps right while also getting an unusual result.


Not taking offense to that because thatís honestly what I have been thinking but after the 2nd time and doing this now for the 3rd time today I honestly think maybe itís a valve cover gasket or a faulty vct solenoid even though I put brand new gaskets and solenoids as well. 😅
 
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:23 PM
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So this is the engine I just timed it today and am following the Haynes manual in placing the rocker arms on the vehicle. The proof is in the pudding so here are the pics.

Tool from ford to align crankshaft keyway.

After tool alignment I verified TDC on cylinder 1.

Driver side, bank 2, a.k.a Left band bank cam phasers alignment marks.

Passenger side, bank 1 a.k.a right hand bank cam phasers alignment marks.

Crankshaft dot alignment for left hand bank.

Crankshaft dot alignment for right hand bank.
 
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:32 AM
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This might be completely off base but are you using the cam holding tool that typically accompanies the crank positioning tool? Having watched the same videos that seems to be important enough its mentioned several times.

I've not done this myself so can't give too much insight into what might cause your performance issues. Hoping its "easily" sorted out.
 
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JWA View Post
This might be completely off base but are you using the cam holding tool that typically accompanies the crank positioning tool? Having watched the same videos that seems to be important enough its mentioned several times.

I've not done this myself so can't give too much insight into what might cause your performance issues. Hoping its "easily" sorted out.

I own the cam phaser holding tool but itís purpose is to hold the cam in place. Itís design is so you can remove the cam phaser bolt and then reinstall/torque the new one down without it spinning on you. Itís impractical when timing this engine because it uses the teeth on the cam.


Keep in mind that when I timed this engine yesterday none of the marks moved, and the camshafts where not activating any valves as all of the followers where removed.
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:54 PM
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Sheared pin?

This is probably coming too late to the party but here it goes

The phasers look brand new but now and again the pin that locates the phaser on the camshaft can shear, especially if the cam bolt is not tightened properly, or if the phaser is not all the way seated on the camshaft. Or the pins are missing.

I have also heard of collapsed lifters on these wonderful 5.4 engines. Chockful of surprises. Might as well check them

Before pulling the catches on the tensioners make sure to turn the camshaft ccw to take up the slack and the bolts are torqued properly. Make sure that the L tensioner is on the driver side. Yes, I screwed this up and found out the hard way. Push against the tension guide. Make sure that the timing marks are still matched up before pulling the catch. This will ensure that the chain doesn't jump teeth when the tensioners are let loose.
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:01 PM
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Also if the camshaft itself pin guide is worn out, you will need a new cam shaft or if a machine shop can weld and machine to spec you be alright.
 
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Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
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p0198 ............Access and unplug the EOT sensor.

2. Install a jumper wire across the connector.

3. Clear the codes and retest.

4. If a P0197 code now sets, replace the EOT sensor.

5. If the same P0198 code sets, repair damaged wiring between the EOT sensor and the PCM.


p2197....................
1. Scan the Fuel Trim and Barometric Pressure (BARO) sensor readings. If the Long Term Fuel Trim (LFT) values are low (close to 0% or negative) at idle and high under engine load, along with low BARO frequency, the most likely cause is a Mass Airflow (MAF) sensor problem.

2. If LFT values are high at idle, and the BARO sensor reading is normal, the most likely cause is an engine vacuum leak.

3. To test for vacuum leaks, allow the engine to run until the scan data indicates closed loop. Then spray around the engine with propane or carburetor spray while monitoring LFT readings for Banks 1 and 2. If the spray gets close to a vacuum or other unmetered air leak, the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) will respond by lowering the Short Term Fuel Trim (SFT), even into the negative range.

Tech Tips:The scan tool BARO sensor reading at sea level is typically 156 Hz (+/- 4 Hz). It should go down about 3 Hz for every 1000 feet above sea level. The BARO reading is NOT a sensor reading, but rather it is a calculation of vehicle elevation made by the PCM. The PCM calculates the BARO value by detecting the MAF sensor reading at high throttle openings, and then comparing the reading to base sea level readings stored in memory. As such, cleaning or replacing the MAF sensor will NOT change the BARO reading. The vehicle must be driven at high throttle openings before the PCM will calculate the BARO reading, or it can be reset by disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes, or doing a Keep Alive Memory (KAM) reset with a scan tool.
 
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Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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also..........
1. Disconnect the upstream sensor on the driver's side and connect a DVOM between the Black (BK) wire and the Grey (GY) wire of the sensor pigtail leaving the sensor harness connector disconnected. Start the engine and monitor the sensor operation when revving the engine up and down to determine if the sensor is capable of producing a reading of more than 0.5 volts. If necessary, force the engine rich by introducing carburetor cleaner, propane or acetylene to the engine through a vacuum line. The sensor should be capable of producing a reading of 900-1000 millivolts (mV) when the engine is forced to run rich.

2. If the sensor will not respond to enrichment, replace the sensor.

3. If the sensor reacts when its reading is checked with a DVOM, check the Red/Black (RD/BK) wire running between the sensor connection and pin 28 of the C175e connector for a potential open circuit or short to ground in the wiring harness. Address the circuit or run a replacement wire as needed.
 
 


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