The Central Junction Fuse box was not the problem. The new box still has a 4.70A draw.

I tried to read the diagnosis codes again with a Lemur Bluetooth BlueDriver and after +20 minutes it finally got to 100%, but it would not complete and give me the fault codes, even after 25 minutes. (My CRV completes in 4 minutes.)

 

Also, I opened up the GEM module and visually inspected it. I could not find any damage. The capacitors were normal and not puff out, and none of the IC chips showed heat damage.

The alternator is fairly new with only a few thousand miles on it.

From what I am thinking, it looks like a the GEM and/or Instrument cluster could be the problem(s). Something is definitely messing with the OBD communications.

I am thinking about buying a GEM off of Ebay and see it that fixes.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

 

The Alternator can be completely disconnected to see if it is causing a draw. No point in replacing it to find out.
Disconnect the GEM for the same test. No use replacing it either.
Your resorting to guessing. That's not trouble shooting unless you have no other recourse in some instances.
If fuse supplies have been positively identifies with the draw, what circuits do they feed?
Work on running down those possibilities.
I have been trouble shooting electric and electronic circuits of all kinds for the better part of 60 years.
Guessing never is the answer unless you just get lucky.
At least look at schematic drawings of the circuits and make intelligent decisions..
Find them in a Haynes service Manuel last chapter.
Unless you do this and come up with accurate info, there is no further help we can provide.
.
In another thread;
The owner finally discovered a blown fuse as the major clue.
Before this he was working on why the fuel pump did not run that would not allow the engine to run.
It turns out to be a short in a single lead to the coils that blows a (30 amp fuse) but we can't get him to test it out or even do a good look for.
We can only help just so much then common sense has to be used.
Good luck.
.

 

Bluegrass7,
(Light bulb turning On) I was starting to run out of options and was grasping for straws. This is the first time I tried to chase down an electrical issue. I was too focused on trying to find that one wire, or figuring out that one system that incorporates all the problems. I didn’t think about just disconnecting an entire electrical component, and then checking the draw. Thanks!! I will start doing that.

I disconnected all electrical connections to the alternator (large red wire, and 2 connectors and also removed fuse 102 (ABS)). The battery had 12.5V, and the draw was still 4.7A. The alternator is not the major problem. It may also be time to recharge the battery, again.

I will try the GEM when the rain quits.

If you had an auto repair shop here in Northeastern part of the Bluegrass State, I would bring you my truck for you or your guys to figure it out.

Thanks!!
David

 

Bluegrass7,

I re-attacked the fuse box in the cab, the GEM module and investigated the Instrument Cluster today. I still was not able to isolate the problem(s).

I started by removing fuses #102, #8 and #11 and installing fuse #103 in the Fuse Box under the hood and started with a draw of 4.7A.

I then removed the relays in the cab fuse box, and disconnected each of the three GEM connectors, one at a time and checked for draw. Each time, it was still 4.7A.

Next, I disconnected the two main connectors in the back of the cab fuse box, one at a time and checked for draw. Each time, it was still 4.7A.

Next, I reinstalled the Gem and the Cab Fuse Box and all of its fuses and relays. (Note: I still had fuses #8, #11 and #102 removed from under the hood fuse box). Then I removed the two Instrument Cluster connectors, one at a time and checked for draw. Each time, it was still 4.7A.

I still thought I had something wrong with the Instrument Cluster, so I removed the following fuses from the Cab Fuse Box: C1, C2, C13, C15, and two other fuses with a tiny draw being C4 and C14. I then re-installed them and removed them, one at a time.

Draw before action -> Action taken -> Draw after action

Removed Instrument Cluster and fuses#8, #11, #102, C1, C2, C4, C13, C14, and C15 -> 0.33A draw. The Instrument Cluster had a draw of about 0.5A. So, I am starting with a lower draw than before.

0.33A draw -> added C1 (installed #103) -> 4.78A
4.78A draw -> removed C1 (installed #103) -> 0.33A
0.33A draw -> added C2 (installed #103) -> 4.40A
4.40A draw -> removed C2 (installed #103) -> 0.33A
0.33A draw -> added C4 (installed #103) -> 0.39A wait a couple of minutes -> 0.36A
0.36A draw -> removed C4 (installed #103) -> 0.36
0.36A draw -> added C13 (installed #103) -> 4.58A
4.58A draw -> removed C13 (installed #103) -> 0.36A
0.36A draw -> added C14 (installed #103) -> 0.42A wait a couple of minutes -> 0.34A
0.34A draw -> removed C14 (installed #103) -> 0.34A
0.36A draw -> added C15 (installed #103) -> 4.86A
4.86A draw -> removed C15 (installed #103) -> 0.36A

Other than finding out that fuse C4 (Exterior Rear View Mirror Switch, Mirror turn signal relays) and C14 (Battery saver Relay, Interior Lamp Relay) have a small momentary bump in draw current, and the GEM and Instrument Cluster are not causing a draw, I am still no closer to finding the problem.

 

Stop, do a brain flush and start all over again.
What are your C designations? There are no such designation in your owner Manuel pages 193 to 196. I can't follow what your doing if we are not talking the same circuit idents.
#103 is the main fuse for the engine bay distribution box. Of course pulling it will stop all draw.
What are the C designations that cause an increase in draw?
Go down those paths if they are indicating a possible fault.. What circuits do they feed etc.
Am I pressing you a bit? yes.
All the records you post are not being used to see a pattern and only confusing you.

 

Starting Over.

Notes:
1. 2001 extended cab RWD, 5-speed, 4.2L F150 XLT with 110K miles. I am the original owner and have never installed any aftermarket electronic parts.
2. Had the fuel pump replaced in the Fall, and everything seemed fine. I mentioned this just because the repair is recent, and not because I think it is part of the parasitic draw issues.
3. The battery started dying on me. I also noticed at the time that the truck would give you a mild shock when you first touched it. One time my wife said that she heard a fan running, even though no one was using the truck. I later traced this down to the ABS pump running. I sent the ABS Module off to have its MOSFET chip (high Amp relay) replaced, since this chip was generally the cause of an ABS pump continuing to run after the key is removed. Since the battery was over 5 years old, I went ahead are replaced it with a new one, about 6 weeks ago. The repaired ABS Module did not stop the ABS pump from running. I did check the connector’s pinouts to verify that the MOSFET chip was working. To stop the ABS pump from running, I removed the ABS fuse #102 under the hood. This is when I first noticed the 4.7A parasitic draw.
4. I took my truck to my local Ford dealer and asked them to fix the running ABS pump issue, parasitic draw issue, and replace brake hoses to the calipers. They fixed the brakes. But their suggestion to fix the ABS issue was to pull the fuse, and they said that it would fix the draw issue. I called them up the next morning with a dead battery and told them they didn’t fix the draw issue. They said they would relook at after the Memorial Day week. That gave me 10 days to try and fix my truck myself. I still have not scheduled that appointment.
5. When checking for a draw, I unplugged the under hood lamp, closed doors, turned off cabin lights, hooked my volt meter in series between the negative battery terminal and its negative connector.
6. To tell the fuses apart, I use a # in front of the fuses under the hood. I use a C in front of the fuses in the cab.

Issues:
1. ABS pump runs, even when the key is out of the ignition. The parasitic battery drain and ABS pump running are probably related. But with a 50A fuse, I just removed the ABS fuse #102 until I can first resolve the 4.7A draw issue, then I will tackle the ABS issue.
2. I get about a 4.7A draw if ANY of the following fuses are installed:

• Battery Junction Box under the hood
  • #8 - 15A fuse - Power Door Locks, CSM, Lock Relays
  • #11- 20A fuse - Alternator Field
• Central Junction Box in the cab
  • C1 - 15A fuse - Audio
  • C2 - 5A fuse - Powertrain Control Module (PCM), Cluster
  • C13 - 20A fuse - Stop Lamp Switch (lamp), Turn/Hazard Flasher
  • C15 - 5A fuse - 4.87A draw - Stop Lamp Switch, (Speed Control, Brake Shift Interlock), Gen Module, RABS Module

Thoughts:
1. Take out all of the offending fuses, and the amp drops down to 0.3A (assuming that when the computer go to sleep that it will drop to less than 50mA). Insert any of the 6 fuses and the amps jump to 4.7A (5.26A minus any upstream resistance which could drop the amps to as low as 4.43A).
2. For the most part, all 6 fuses are unrelated to each other. There should not be any interconnectivity between them.
3. The only thing in my mind that could join these circuits are either a bad computer module(s) or their wires have been crushed and/or shorted together some place.
4. Some of the places these circuits are close to each other are:

• Central Junction Box in the cab
• Instrument Cluster
• Are there one or two different places where all of these wires come together?

Testing:
1. The Datalink Connector

• About every offending fuse in one way or another is connected to the datalink connector. When I hook an OBD2 to the connector, I can only pull a P1000 code. It takes about 20 to 25 minutes to complete the diagnostics search. Because of the extended time, I am assuming that the P1000 is cause by the “OBD2 Monitor Testing Not Complete”. Normally, this test takes less than 5 minutes.

2. Alternator:

• Removed all offending fuses, then installed Fuse #11 and got a draw of 4.65A. Removing the large 3 wire alternator connector and draw drops to 0.44A and still falling after 30 seconds.
• Removed all offending fuses, then installed Fuse #11 and #8 and got a draw of 4.65A. I pulled the large 3 wire alternator connector from the alternator to completely isolate the alternator from all circuits. The voltmeter was still reading a 4.7A draw.
• Removed all offending fuses, then installed Fuse #11 and #8 and got a draw of 4.65A. I pulled all three connectors from the alternator to completely isolate the alternator from all circuits. The voltmeter was still reading a 4.7A draw.
• I also checked for bad diodes by measuring an AC voltage across the battery with the engine running. The reading was something like 0.02 VAC. So, the diodes are good.

3. Central Junction Box in the cab

• A lot of circuits seemed to go through the Central Junction Box and/or the instrument cluster.
• Swapped the Central Junction Box with another one. That didn’t change anything.
• Removed the three connectors on the side of the GEM module, and then removed the two large bolted in connectors in the back of the Central Junction Box. That didn’t change anything.

4. Generic Electronic Module (GEM)

• Removed the three connectors on the side of the GEM module. That didn’t change anything.
• Swapped the GEM module with another one. That didn’t change anything.

5. Instrument Cluster

• Removed the two connectors from the back of the Instrument Cluster. That didn’t change anything.

Final Thoughts:
1. I think it is a pinched cable that has one powered wire (reason for relatively consistence draw across all fuses) connected to the offending fuses’ ground side of their wires. I have looked for damaged wires, and did not see anything obvious.

 

P1000 does not just take 10 to 15 min. to clear.
It takes at least several (drive cycles) for all testing to complete. The fuel tank system takes the most time due to it's complexity.
Every time power is removed from the PCM it will clear all codes and enter full diagnostics next time Ignition and start up is functioned.
.
If you remove the Alternator connector and lose drain, the regulator is faulty.
If you leave this connector removed and still have a drain, the wiring has a fault.
Since this one indication shows up it should be easier to trace these leads to a location of any harness issues and find the rest of the drain.
I am getting the feeling you have multiples issues all at the same time from whatever has happened.
The only way is to run them down one at a time.
If you paid a shop to do this assuming they have enough expertise, you might as well buy another truck for what the final cost would be.

 

All fuses are removed, except for #11. The drain disappears, if the 3-wire alternator connector is removed. So, I took the alternator down to the parts store and had it tested. It failed their test, and I got a new remanufactured one on Warranty.

I installed the alternator. All fuses are removed, except for #11. The drain disappears if the 3-wire alternator connector is removed. Can the new alternator be bad?

I am going to inspect the alternator wiring back to the fuse box under the hood.

 

If your results are accurate, it shows there is more than one issue present at the same time as I surmised.
Could a replacement be faulty? yes there is always that possibility like a new tire or anything else.
With this possibility, you are tending to look for a single problem instead of more than one.
.
Charge circuit operation:
Ignition off;
No power to the field coil [through the regulator].
Key on lights the dash lamp from a ground supplied by the regulator because power is applied through the Ignition switch in the ON position..
.
Engine running;
When alternator voltage comes up, the regulator opens ground to the dash lamp putting it out and adjust voltage to the field winding that controls charge current level according the battery requirement.. How does it know what level? There is a reference circuit to compare with set at 14.2 volts +/- a tenth or so for tolerence.
If you have any other actions, there is a fault.
.
Faults;
1. Regulator is faulty causing field winding to drain current..
2. Bridge Diodes are leaky or shorted. These are one way current devices connected directly from battery to ground and are not to conduct any current unless the alternator is being powered on and by the running engine.
3. Cross in wiring to the Alternator causing an operational fault.
Unless knowing how these circuits work, chances of sorting it out by anyone are questionable.
.
.

 

Sometimes you get so used to your equipment that you don’t even realize you are using it incorrectly. I’ve had my multimeter for over 30 years and I assumed I knew how to measure amps. WRONG!!!

The new Alternator was a big help! It fixed my major draw issue. The maximum draw is now 0.33A, before the computers go to sleep.

Using my multimeter correctly, the following fuses are no longer causing any draw issues: under the hood fuse #11, and in the Cab fuse number C1, C13.

Removing fuse #8, and C2, causes a decrease of 0.05A for each fuse. They are also powering computer systems. I need to see if I install these fuses and wait for the computers go to sleep, to see if the draw drops back down.

Removing the cab fuse C15 has the largest drop, and it also controls the RABS. Removing it has an immediate drops from 0.33 to 0.15A. This may also be my ABS issue.

Finally, I waited 48 minutes, with all fuses installed, and the draw dropped to 0.08A. I think I am finally getting close!

 

AH HA, .
I found you hard to get through to.
The things your listed was not making sense.
I zeroed in on the Alternator by the 'oxy moron' lead on lead off the alternator that could not be unless there was two faults present.
Any ways good luck and pay attention next time.
I've been in the electric/electronic biz for 50 years trouble shooting, repairing and building systems.
It's hard to sell an Eskimo snow and ice where he normally lives.
Hi hi..

 

lol! Go back and re-read the final comment in post #15.