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I ran a ats ported housing on my stock turbo for a few years, it killed the surge very well but I eventually decided I wanted a bit of a boost in performance so I installed a billet wheel for ported housing. That was an awesome combination but I killed it in short order by overboosting.
I ordered a kc38r... it ran hot on the highway unloaded. Hooked up to a 6000# camper it was ridiculous, slight hill and I'd be over 1300 unless I was barely in the pedal.
I had less than 10 days until we left for a 9,000 mile roadtrip. At this point I was done messing around, new truck or fix this one up right. T4 setup and I told them to do stage 1 injectors while it was in the shop. I've been very happy with this setup. I have to work pretty hard to get 1250. So the only good thing I can really say about the kc turbo is that the customer service was great and they gave me a full refund.
How much heat to you think a stream of oil can remove from the lip of a piston?
That's from a 6.7.
Typically when we see failures like that... it is not "egt" related. When you have one single cylinder that totally melts down like that it is usually related to an injector sticking, cracked nozzles, valve stuck closed, etc. Egts could be totally fine and still have a catastrophic failure.
General rule of thumb is you can run 1200-1300egts all day every day without problem. You just need to be careful how long you spend above 1250-1300egts. The higher you go above 1300 degrees... the shorter amount of time you can spend in that EGT area. You can run 2000 degrees for 10 seconds without any issues, but you don't want to tow a trailer up a hill at those temps for long periods of time
This gives a general idea
1200-1300 - safe zone
1300-1400 - less than 30 seconds
1400-1500 - less than 15 seconds
1500+ less than 10 seconds
These pistons don't just turn to liquid once they hit 1250 degrees... that is like take a piece of ice out of the freezer and putting it in the refrigerator... it is not going to melt at all unless it sits in there for a long time. If you take it out and put it on the counter... then it might start melting after a minute.
As stated above the oil piston squirts do help keep temps down for sure.
I bought a KC38r stage 2 from cncfab and Its a pos plain and simple. I have the torque pro app and auto enginuity and data logged while trying it out. It was the worst decision I've ever made. I shared that info with Brad. My name is Allen Gadberry if you want to check to see if you sent me one. I tried 3 different tuners with it. It ran good with no load behind the truck. With a toyhauler it's a pos.
With no disrespect towards KC Turbo or anyone else, this situation is exactly what I want to avoid. This picture is worth several thousand words, thank you sir! See that big flat front on the toy hauler? My toy hauler is similar. I know from years of towing heavy things with big flat fronts that they start pulling very hard above 50 mph from wind resistance.
I am wiling to spend the time and money to get the extra power with low EGT's, assuming that's even possible.
Weird... I just checked my messages from you and you never mentioned having any issues. Last message your wrote said that you got it installed and it was "awesome". Typically we try to help out customers if/when they have issues. Just weird we never heard from you. We might have been able to help with the issue. That was an older Style KC38r from early last year. We did a few updates last year over the summer.
I want to re-state that I am in no way bashing or looking down on you or KC Turbo's products. I am intently reading everything you post and taking it in. I have wrenched and built more that a few vehicles in my life and understand there are many, many variables in builds.
No need to rebalance after adding a wheel. I’d wager that 95% of folks never rebalanced after install. I slapped a $60 dual plane cast wheel in my stock turbo and the surge was gone. I have about 80k miles on that turbo and it’s sitting in my garage with no bearing play.
Thank you! That gives me enough confidence to give it a try!
Can you tow heavy with your current combo and keep EGT's in check?
Thank you! That gives me enough confidence to give it a try!
Can you tow heavy with your current combo and keep EGT's in check?
I can throw my pyrometer away and still get a speeding ticket pulling a 12k toy hauler into a headwind on. 6% grade. I’m not saying I can’t break 1200 degrees, but I can sustain over 30psi at 2k rpm at 1190 degrees, as shown in the video I posted yesterday.
I can throw my pyrometer away and still get a speeding ticket pulling a 12k toy hauler into a headwind on. 6% grade. I’m not saying I can’t break 1200 degrees, but I can sustain over 30psi at 2k rpm at 1190 degrees, as shown in the video I posted yesterday.
My experience is ...you have to work, under a special set of circumstances, to get in that 1200 range.
I can throw my pyrometer away and still get a speeding ticket pulling a 12k toy hauler into a headwind on. 6% grade.
that should be your new signature
Now that im in a no holds bar state, (smog 5.0s) that s300 has scratched my n#t after a few reads...but for now, a ww2 would be suffice. Im running a 1st gen XDP wheel and i lost booster. Helped in surge but...if cheese and time aint on ur side, that ww2 would do the trick. B4 these oyher turbos and setups hit the screen, the 2nd gen wheels were the kats meow
Please don’t take these responses as KC bashing, but as constructive criticism. From what I’ve seen, the KC turbos are hands down the best drop in turbos available for a 7.3. This discussion, to me at least, is about whether they perform as good as an appropriately sized SXE for heavy towing.
Compared to Powerstoke Army, this forum and its members are more work/towing oriented instead of racing and sled pulling.
My objective was to be able to tow with as much power as possible without breaking 1200* (my personal sustained limit) and not having to keep downshifting. This is where the SXE gets it done. Since we don’t have 10 speed trannys like the newer trucks, we need a wider effective rpm range. The bonus is that the 364.5 also flows 10 lbs/min more than a 38r which has made 600hp with 250/200s.
Originally Posted by Peixinho
To answer a few of your question... I did not run a .91 with an s369... just data out there. Lots of guys run the .91 on the 369.
Lots of guys use ether to start their trucks too. IMO, both are bad ideas.
Originally Posted by Peixinho
Also... what does it matter if gated vs non-gated? We are comparing 2 different options here and what EBP does between the 2 of them? You can also run a gated turbine housing on an s300sxe turbo if you want... but they don't come standard. So if the gate helps bring EBP down, and comes standard on the KC turbos? Then why is that even a question comparing EBP? It is what it is, just presenting data. Point is... everyone freaks out about drop in turbos running so much EBP and talks about 1:1 and repeats it over an over again with zero data. Fact of the matter is our new turbos have a great EBP:BOOST ratio... and can come with multiple turbine housing options with or without gates.
My observation here is that, despite being an SXE copy, it’s taking a tighter housing with a gate to match the SXE’s responsiveness, with similar drive pressures. Just try to keep it apples to apples.
Originally Posted by Peixinho
Your video you posted looks about dead nuts with the video I posted above, off by maybe 1-2psi. And you are running a 1.0 housing vs the .84ar gated housing in the video I posted. Both run right about 1:1 up to the same point and EBP goes up just about the same.
As shown in the video below, despite a looser, non-gated housing, this 366/74/1.0 is still more responsive than what I’ve seen a KC do.
Originally Posted by Peixinho
The truck that bent the push rod was around 45-50psi of boost and 70-75psi of ebp. But it is EBP that usually bends push rods because it hangs open the exhaust valve. Not bashing... but just pointing out that EBP is not always 1:1 on these turbos... it is just that most don't have a gauge to read high enough to see that. Which you stated in your post and showed in your video. Not bashing on either one... just saying they don't run 1:1 all the time.
Every turbo has a choke point. Your original statement omitted how much boost was being made to achieve that drive pressure.
Originally Posted by Peixinho
I understand you love your t4 kit, and like how it drives, everyone knows they run great? But how can you know how it compares to these new turbos without ever trying one? The results have been phenomenal and customers super happy.
I’m sure you have tons of happy customers, but the ones that are towing heavy up grades are still having to limit fuel and keep the revs up to manage EGTs.
Originally Posted by Peixinho
We even have a local truck testing the same injectors side by side with a t4 kit... so far they have been performing very close in every way. So IMO it is pretty badass that someone has been taking the time to improve the drop in turbos and options so much that they can compete on a similar level as a t4 kit... for less than half the price.
No argument here! I’ve stated before how cool it is that people like you and Corey at CNC Fab taking the financial risk to bring new products to the 7.3 market. A lot of companies would just move on and only focus on the newer trucks. Huge kudos for that!
Originally Posted by Peixinho
If there is anything specific you would like to see during testing or would like to have tested then hit us up.
IMO, this video sums up what I think most of us would like to see. Stupid high boost at stupid low rpm under 1250 EGTs. This will give the customer the best indication of how well EGTs can be managed.
Disclaimer: I don’t condone towing 24k while lugging the engine like this. There is no reason, other than for demonstration purposes, to subject the internals to that much stress.
Please don’t take these responses as KC bashing, but as constructive criticism. From what I’ve seen, the KC turbos are hands down the best drop in turbos available for a 7.3. This discussion, to me at least, is about whether they perform as good as an appropriately sized SXE for heavy towing.
Compared to Powerstoke Army, this forum and its members are more work/towing oriented instead of racing and sled pulling.
My objective was to be able to tow with as much power as possible without breaking 1200* (my personal sustained limit) and not having to keep downshifting. This is where the SXE gets it done. Since we don’t have 10 speed trannys like the newer trucks, we need a wider effective rpm range. The bonus is that the 364.5 also flows 10 lbs/min more than a 38r which has made 600hp with 250/200s.
Lots of guys use ether to start their trucks too. IMO, both are bad ideas.
My observation here is that, despite being an SXE copy, it’s taking a tighter housing with a gate to match the SXE’s responsiveness, with similar drive pressures. Just try to keep it apples to apples.
As shown in the video below, despite a looser, non-gated housing, this 366/74/1.0 is still more responsive than what I’ve seen a KC do.
Every turbo has a choke point. Your original statement omitted how much boost was being made to achieve that drive pressure.
I’m sure you have tons of happy customers, but the ones that are towing heavy up grades are still having to limit fuel and keep the revs up to manage EGTs.
No argument here! I’ve stated before how cool it is that people like you and Corey at CNC Fab taking the financial risk to bring new products to the 7.3 market. A lot of companies would just move on and only focus on the newer trucks. Huge kudos for that!
IMO, this video sums up what I think most of us would like to see. Stupid high boost at stupid low rpm under 1250 EGTs. This will give the customer the best indication of how well EGTs can be managed.
Disclaimer: I don’t condone towing 24k while lugging the engine like this. There is no reason, other than for demonstration purposes, to subject the internals to that much stress.
I don't have time to read this whole thing tonight butwant to add (sorry if this has been covered), if you go T4, you loose the EBPV so if you want an exhaust brake, it ain't gonna be cheap or easy. If you go the KC route, simple decel tune or switch gets it done.
As for a wheel, the options are endless. I haven’t seen any evidence that one is better than the other, but I would only buy one from a known business like Riffraff, KC Turbo, 1023 Diesel, CNC Fab...and the list goes on. There are a lot of Chinese copies on Amazon and eBay that I wouldn’t trust.
Which wheel to go in my stock turbo while I'm saving for the likely sxe swap?
Originally Posted by The Brad
As for a wheel, the options are endless. I haven’t seen any evidence that one is better than the other, but I would only buy one from a known business like Riffraff, KC Turbo, 1023 Diesel, CNC Fab...and the list goes on. There are a lot of Chinese copies on Amazon and eBay that I wouldn’t trust.
I have the Riffraff 4+4 billet wheel and have been very happy with it. My surge is cured and, although I don't tow heavy, I have no issues with EGTs.
With no disrespect towards KC Turbo or anyone else, this situation is exactly what I want to avoid. This picture is worth several thousand words, thank you sir! See that big flat front on the toy hauler? My toy hauler is similar. I know from years of towing heavy things with big flat fronts that they start pulling very hard above 50 mph from wind resistance.
I am wiling to spend the time and money to get the extra power with low EGT's, assuming that's even possible.
02-28-2019, 10:24 AM
