Fords spec WSS-m2c153-H / 5w-20 oil / what it means
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 5
From: Trussville, Alabama
Seems the only hting constant is change.
ARRGGHHH!
I plan to do a UOA of Havoline 5W20 at my next oil change.
It will be for the range of 5000 miles through 10,000 miles.
That will tell me if I plan to continue with the 5W20.
Flash,
Are you saying the 930-A spec is an improvement over the 153-H oils?
Or said another way, WHAT THE HECK OIL DO I NEED TO BE RUNNING????
I feel like a dog chasing his own tail.
ARRGGHHH!
I plan to do a UOA of Havoline 5W20 at my next oil change.
It will be for the range of 5000 miles through 10,000 miles.
That will tell me if I plan to continue with the 5W20.
Flash,
Are you saying the 930-A spec is an improvement over the 153-H oils?
Or said another way, WHAT THE HECK OIL DO I NEED TO BE RUNNING????
I feel like a dog chasing his own tail.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 1
From: Southeast FLA
Originally Posted by BrianA
Are you saying the 930-A spec is an improvement over the 153-H oils?
I need to read over the 930-A spec still.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Midwest
Gamma,
Let us know your thoughts after reviewing 930A.
http://www.ilma.org/resources/ford_s...fill_specs.pdf
The thing I find interesting is that the only difference between 929A (5W-30), and 930A (5W-20) is the viscosity requirement. But it does make sense since now both MC oils are labeled as 'Premium Synthetic Blends'.
What I do find concerning is the viscosity tolerance range @ 100° C for the 20 weight - 5.6 to 9.3 cSt. I'm guessing this is a SAE standard? The lower end of the spec is awfully 'thin', especially for boundary lubrication areas.
Anyway, the MC site states the viscosity of 5W-20 as 8.9@ 100° C (probably typical). I have a slight problem with thier 'reported' value, as with all production processes (I believe Conoco in this instance) would be required to develop and maintain a statitically capable process (exhibiting only long term common cause variation), in order to ensure all product produced meets the specified viscosity range.
For example, if the process was centered to the spec (necessary as not to get into the 30 weight range) and demonstrated a long term capabilty of Cp 1.0, we could predict 50% of the product to come in around 7.4, 25% near the lower limit, and 25% near the upper limit.
Your thoughts...
Let us know your thoughts after reviewing 930A.
http://www.ilma.org/resources/ford_s...fill_specs.pdf
The thing I find interesting is that the only difference between 929A (5W-30), and 930A (5W-20) is the viscosity requirement. But it does make sense since now both MC oils are labeled as 'Premium Synthetic Blends'.
What I do find concerning is the viscosity tolerance range @ 100° C for the 20 weight - 5.6 to 9.3 cSt. I'm guessing this is a SAE standard? The lower end of the spec is awfully 'thin', especially for boundary lubrication areas.
Anyway, the MC site states the viscosity of 5W-20 as 8.9@ 100° C (probably typical). I have a slight problem with thier 'reported' value, as with all production processes (I believe Conoco in this instance) would be required to develop and maintain a statitically capable process (exhibiting only long term common cause variation), in order to ensure all product produced meets the specified viscosity range.
For example, if the process was centered to the spec (necessary as not to get into the 30 weight range) and demonstrated a long term capabilty of Cp 1.0, we could predict 50% of the product to come in around 7.4, 25% near the lower limit, and 25% near the upper limit.
Your thoughts...
Freshman User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Midwest
Flash,
Where are you getting the viscosity @150° C values? As I look at the Mobil & MC sites, I am seeing HT/HS ratings in the 2.62 range for the following:
Mobil 1 5W-20
Mobil Drive Clean 7500
Motorcraft 5W-20
Thanx
Where are you getting the viscosity @150° C values? As I look at the Mobil & MC sites, I am seeing HT/HS ratings in the 2.62 range for the following:
Mobil 1 5W-20
Mobil Drive Clean 7500
Motorcraft 5W-20
Thanx
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 12
From: Sioux Falls SD
Is any up to date data out similar to the consumer report from 1996 on the oils in real life?
I have been paying $3.50-$4.00 a quart for M1 10w30 since I bought my 99 F150 3.5 years ago. I thought I was getting better protection for my hard on oil driving style. Mostly stop and go city and balance towing a trailer at high speed.
If I can get as good or better protection for less, I am in. Tell me what to buy.
Dan
I have been paying $3.50-$4.00 a quart for M1 10w30 since I bought my 99 F150 3.5 years ago. I thought I was getting better protection for my hard on oil driving style. Mostly stop and go city and balance towing a trailer at high speed.
If I can get as good or better protection for less, I am in. Tell me what to buy.
Dan
)
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: Douglasville,GA
With all of this chatter over 5w20 Motorcraft versus the other guys, No one mentioned that Mobil 1 is now 5w20 as well. So here is a question for the experts;does anyone know how it tested?
Freshman User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Midwest
Does the 2.6 for Mobil 1 5W-20 equate to the highlighted portion of the Motorcraft spec below (taken from thier webpage), or is it something different? It seems Mobil & Motorcraft (at least the companies) report 
almost the same values??
As a side note is there any concern over the Motorcraft's relatively low flashpoint?
Motorcraft SAE Grade
5W-20
API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0
Not bashing either oil...but am in a decision making process as to which oil to go with in my 05 Escape Ltd 3.0L. I've used Motorcraft for years in my F150, and (2) Probes with absolutly no problems. But also have excellent results running Mobil 1 5W-30 in my 02 Mustang GT from day one.
05 Escape Ltd. 3.0
02 Mustabg GT 4.6
97 F150 Off Road 4.6
97 Probe 2.0
95 Probe GT 2.5
almost the same values??As a side note is there any concern over the Motorcraft's relatively low flashpoint?
Motorcraft SAE Grade
5W-20
API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0
Not bashing either oil...but am in a decision making process as to which oil to go with in my 05 Escape Ltd 3.0L. I've used Motorcraft for years in my F150, and (2) Probes with absolutly no problems. But also have excellent results running Mobil 1 5W-30 in my 02 Mustang GT from day one.
05 Escape Ltd. 3.0
02 Mustabg GT 4.6
97 F150 Off Road 4.6
97 Probe 2.0
95 Probe GT 2.5
Last edited by hulkster2; Jul 17, 2005 at 09:55 PM.
Junior User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
Originally Posted by Flash
As you probably know, the 153-H spec has been superceded by the 930-A spec. The 153 oils were either a mostly Gp III dino synthetic or a good percentage PAO basestock. The dino basestocks have improved dramatically and the percentages of actual synthetic basestocks are down but to reliably hit the spec with production oils, it will be a blend.
Your comments regarding M1 0w-30. The HT/HS rating of 2.9 is just above the industry standard for this speced oil. An absolute minimum of 2.6 is required and for average wear a HT/HS rating of 2.8 is required. Most of the 930 oils will rate better than that. Redline will come in at 3.3 for the 5w-20 oil, Havoline will hit 2.9. In my opinion, there are better Mobil products out there. The 7500 is a favorite. Even the 5w-30 old M1 is a better oil being that it is just barely a thin 30w, generally shears to a heavy 20w and then oxidizes back to a thin 30w. Lube engineers agree that the thinnest cold start winter rating is 5w and the thickest viscosity at temp is 40. This excludes artic conditions, obviously. As the formulations change, so will be the thinking behind the formulations. Reduced ZDDP has made newer types of moly more prominent and antimony is the direction some oil formulators are looking.
In regards to the 5w-30 spec on GM engines. The oil flows better at cold temps providing better protection at cold startup. At operating temps, it is the same 30. There are no other benefits to running a 5w-30 over a 10w-30, all things being equal. Ford also specs a 5w-xx oil for better flow characteristics at cold startup for the OHC design.
One thing is for sure, the oils of today are far better products than the oils of the nineties. Even a discount oil today is a good oil as long as it is API and a current rating.
Your comments regarding M1 0w-30. The HT/HS rating of 2.9 is just above the industry standard for this speced oil. An absolute minimum of 2.6 is required and for average wear a HT/HS rating of 2.8 is required. Most of the 930 oils will rate better than that. Redline will come in at 3.3 for the 5w-20 oil, Havoline will hit 2.9. In my opinion, there are better Mobil products out there. The 7500 is a favorite. Even the 5w-30 old M1 is a better oil being that it is just barely a thin 30w, generally shears to a heavy 20w and then oxidizes back to a thin 30w. Lube engineers agree that the thinnest cold start winter rating is 5w and the thickest viscosity at temp is 40. This excludes artic conditions, obviously. As the formulations change, so will be the thinking behind the formulations. Reduced ZDDP has made newer types of moly more prominent and antimony is the direction some oil formulators are looking.
In regards to the 5w-30 spec on GM engines. The oil flows better at cold temps providing better protection at cold startup. At operating temps, it is the same 30. There are no other benefits to running a 5w-30 over a 10w-30, all things being equal. Ford also specs a 5w-xx oil for better flow characteristics at cold startup for the OHC design.
One thing is for sure, the oils of today are far better products than the oils of the nineties. Even a discount oil today is a good oil as long as it is API and a current rating.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 573
From: Brentwood,CA
[QUOTE=hulkster2]Does the 2.6 for Mobil 1 5W-20 equate to the highlighted portion of the Motorcraft spec below (taken from thier webpage), or is it something different? It seems Mobil & Motorcraft (at least the companies) report almost the same values??
As a side note is there any concern over the Motorcraft's relatively low flashpoint?
Motorcraft SAE Grade
5W-20
API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0
where did you find sj rated 5w20 oil?
almost the same values??As a side note is there any concern over the Motorcraft's relatively low flashpoint?
Motorcraft SAE Grade
5W-20
API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0
where did you find sj rated 5w20 oil?
Freshman User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Midwest
Just to mix things up a bit...I just seen Trop Artic 5W-30 semi-syn at Wally world for $1.24. But that' not the reason for the post...
The back of the 5W-30 bottle states it EXCEEDS the Ford WSS-M2C930A spec (along with Honda, GM, and Chrysler specs).
In reviewing the 930A spec, it requires a max viscosity @100°C of 9.3 cSt. Is the Trop Artic simply mislabled, or do we now have the best of both worlds...a 5W-30 weight meeting/exceeding Ford's 5W-20 930A spec???
The back of the 5W-30 bottle states it EXCEEDS the Ford WSS-M2C930A spec (along with Honda, GM, and Chrysler specs).
In reviewing the 930A spec, it requires a max viscosity @100°C of 9.3 cSt. Is the Trop Artic simply mislabled, or do we now have the best of both worlds...a 5W-30 weight meeting/exceeding Ford's 5W-20 930A spec???