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Are Oil Additives now needed?

  #1  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:42 PM
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Are Oil Additives now needed?

I recently was told by a friend of mine who is deeply involved with engine building specifically for race engines that "todays engine Oils" do NOT supply sufficient lubrication for the cam shafts in older engines because they dont contain zinc.and those era cams needed zinc...He suggested Valvoline VR1 racing oil because of its zinc content...then he suggested adding additional zinc would be advised also even with that Valvoline VR1 oil.... what are you all using in the engines of yesteryear in your vehicles....???? thoughts???
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 04:22 AM
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While it is true that the oil companies had to change the zinc levels, because of the Catalic converters. The additional additives actually out perform the old oils. My brother works at Cat in the oil analysis lab. I've seen oil samples that customers have added zinc to the oil. The added zinc did not perform as good as the straight oil. When I was working on yachts, a more senor guy and I were replacing one of a pair of Mercury 454 engines. After we got it wedged back inside, I was attaching everything and the senior tech was filling the fluids. He believed the "Got to have more Zinc Myth" too. So he went and bought 4 small cans of it to add to the engine oil. When I asked him "Why do you think that the zinc is needed?" He said "Because the oil doesn't have it anymore." OK, I said, But how do you know how much to put in this engine? I got the puppy with the tilted head look for a second or two, then he told me to go back to doing what ever I was doing. So that's my point, with out a lab, how could anyone know how much of ANYTHING to add to their oil. Oil from one company is not formulated the same as another company. Now sure modern cars use different valve trains and cam durations than our old trucks, I guess a person could change to a retro-roller cam set-up to reduce the friction, Or use diesel truck oil (most still have more zinc than car oils). I still use Mobil 1 10W-30. Most of the racing oils with the high zinc levels have a warning about prolonged useage. For breaking in a new cam follow the manufactures directions. They may require a special cam/bearing prelube grease or break-in oil. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:34 AM
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How about solid lifter set ups...272 Y block...zinc?

GaryKip...thank you...your points are well taken. I certainly would like to have access to all the data a lab that tests all of this has and for what the oil manufacturers really know....additionally,,,while I was standing in the bay of that BMW dealership where my friend works and watching his coworker and a tool customer of mine do an oil change on his 65 Pont GTO Convertable.,, using the Valvoline VR1 racing oil that raised my questions... after ,my initial post,.I remembered my friend was really mentioning my solid lifter vehicle the 1955 Ford C600 COE Tool Truck that has the solid lifter 272 Y block in it...are your thoughts any different regarding solid lifters and additives...specifically zinc? ALSO... I would hope the(zinc) additive would give SOME guideline as to how much and often to use their product....I want my engine(s) to have every opportunity to last....I run this tool truck everyday...in today's traffic etc....I try not to stress the engine...Im in no real hurry to get anywhere and most of my driving is city delivery type stuff really....some freeway but like I said I keep the revs down....I also keep the valves adjusted...the 1972 F250 with the 360 FE is new to me and a low mileage vehicle....I need to put tires and wheels on it and its going in for paint then I will use it as my driver to and from the tool truck instead of my 300k 2001 Toyota tundra(Ill donate that Toyota to one of my sons who has a fleet of them for his window business).....pretty soon my newest vehicle will be my 1976 Mercedes 450 SL Roadster....other than my wifes new Subaru Outback.....

Camper on for 46 years now off...brand new bed ...updated pics soon... nick name Brutus

Ethyl the Tool truck

 
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:02 AM
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Valvoline VR1 shouldn't be used in a street engine. There is no detergents on it and you will cause sludge. It's for short term race use only and that's direct from Valvoline. To make things easier use a non dual rated HDEO in a 15w40 variety.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:03 AM
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Shell Rotella is the best bang for the buck for non roller lifter vehicles. Sams club or Walmart is where I buy it.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:39 AM
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Personally I spend the $20-$25 on the bottle of ZDDP additive. I use either shell rotella 15W40 or Napa brand 10W30 or 5W30 depending on the vehicle or even , no sense over thinking it unless it is a race driven track engine. I have even been buying motorcraft filters and oil as it seems to be competitively priced.

D
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:59 AM
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STP oil additive has the ZDDP in it , reasonably priced and available at Most Auto parts stores
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:40 PM
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All this focus on ZDDP in reality the same and better level of protection can be had with moly. I wouldn't waste 20.00 on ZDDP. Check out BITOG.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:12 PM
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Ran Rotella T4 in my Ford diesel for over 200,000 miles with no problem and now I run it in my 1971 F250 with 96,000 original miles with the same results. Shell Rotella has the highest zink content of any non race oil, as per Shell. It can be used in both diesel & gas engines.
 
  #10  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:29 PM
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I run Shell Rotella 15W40 in my '68 Ford (390). Seems to do real well. I also have an '87 Correct Craft Martinique w/ 351 Ford W direct drive inboard. Most guys on the Correct Craft site run the VR1 20W50 in their engines, that is what I have been running as well due to that is what the PO of the boat ran too. I just stayed with it. However, you guys are making me rethink that strategy with your comments on the VR1 being more of a true race oil. I might just switch it over to the Rotella.

Another comment I heard on the zinc was that the oil can only absorb so much of the good stuff. You put too much in and the oil can't keep it in suspension, and it separates from the oil, and bad things can happen to the engine.

Anybody running Fram filters? DO NOT mention Fram on the ski boat site. Major abuse ensues. I usually go toward Wix or Motorcraft these days.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:48 PM
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To everyone running 15w40 regardless of brand see my post above. You need to make sure you are using a dedicated HDEO diesel only rated oil. There was a massive industry change in the last year with CK-4 oils. The new 15w40 you can buy is dual rated CK4/SN as they have stripped the zinc and phosphorus out. So realize when you buy a 15w40 that is dual rated it conforms to the requirements of SN oil also. Newer diesels have sensitive emissions components and it was a critical step in making the engines stay emissions compliant.

Look for older stock 15w40 that is still CI4+ or go with a oil that is detroit diesel 2 stroke complaint. Those oils still have well past 1400ppm of zinc.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:29 PM
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I was sure hoping that the Rotella still meets the specs. Look like it does meet the CI 4 + spec. Not that I have one, but, I wonder if the Rotella could be run in an old 2 cycle Jimmy? My dad used to run those in his trucks in the 60's/70's. Nothing like the sound of a straight piped 318 under full load jamming through the gears.

 
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:47 PM
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Run Rotella 10W-30 in my Ford diesel & my Ford 300 4.9L inline 6 with nothing but Motorcraft oil filters. Nock on wood, never had a problem.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 1968 F250camper View Post
I was sure hoping that the Rotella still meets the specs. Look like it does meet the CI 4 + spec. Not that I have one, but, I wonder if the Rotella could be run in an old 2 cycle Jimmy? My dad used to run those in his trucks in the 60's/70's. Nothing like the sound of a straight piped 318 under full load jamming through the gears.

What's the API starburst say for rating? Also for reference you can't use it in a two stroke detroit. Detroit requires a low ash extreme heavy duty low shear oil. You have to get that in a straight 30w or 40w. Both of those grades are also suitable in gas engines. You can look up all the pecs on the shell website.
 
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:16 AM
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If the starburst is the little round symbol on the back panel, it says API Service CK-4. Is that good or bad? Should I run in my truck?
 

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