239 Y-block "refresh"?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2017
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From: Northwest PA (Erie)
239 Y-block "refresh"?
I got my hands on a running 239 y-block (and 4-speed Borg-Warner tranny) out of a '55 F-350 that's headed for my '55 F-100. It has ~79000 miles on it, and still runs really good.
Was wondering, though... should I think about a total rebuild, or is there a basic "refresh" kinda thing that would be sufficient for a good-running engine with relatively low mileage?
Thanks in advance,
Scott
Was wondering, though... should I think about a total rebuild, or is there a basic "refresh" kinda thing that would be sufficient for a good-running engine with relatively low mileage?
Thanks in advance,
Scott
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,287
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From: NM
79,000 miles was rebuild time in the old days (or getting close to it). Personally I'd at least pull the intake manifold and check for sludge, and the rocker covers to check for wear on the valve train. Y-blocks were known for both. Keeping the oil passages open to the rockers is essential. Do you know if the engine has ever been open before?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2017
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From: Northwest PA (Erie)
79,000 miles was rebuild time in the old days (or getting close to it). Personally I'd at least pull the intake manifold and check for sludge, and the rocker covers to check for wear on the valve train. Y-blocks were known for both. Keeping the oil passages open to the rockers is essential. Do you know if the engine has ever been open before?
Scott
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,287
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From: NM
That figure sounds like a shop that doesn't want the work, honestly. It's the same with flatheads, there is nothing really special about them but I've seen rebuild quotes posted anywhere from $2500 to $7000. In the case of the early Y-blocks, some parts may be harder to find and more expensive, but they aren't fundamentally different than the typical SBC.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,571
Likes: 22
From: Oxford, Indiana
If it's running well now, I would go to the extra effort and pull the heads and have the valves done and have new hardened exhaust seats installed. These old engines were designed to run on unleaded fuel and extended use on today's fuels can cause the exhaust valve seats to erode and the valves to recede. This is not good with solid lifters and fully adjustable rockers like the 239 has because the valve can only recede so far into the seat before the lash is taken up and it has nowhere else to go. And then it leaks. And then it gets burnt. Not good. Save yourself the headache if you plan to put some miles on the thing and get the heads done and seats installed now while it's out.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,698
Likes: 823
From: Wentzville, MO
I got my hands on a running 239 y-block (and 4-speed Borg-Warner tranny) out of a '55 F-350 that's headed for my '55 F-100. It has ~79000 miles on it, and still runs really good.
Was wondering, though... should I think about a total rebuild, or is there a basic "refresh" kinda thing that would be sufficient for a good-running engine with relatively low mileage?
Thanks in advance,
Scott
Was wondering, though... should I think about a total rebuild, or is there a basic "refresh" kinda thing that would be sufficient for a good-running engine with relatively low mileage?
Thanks in advance,
Scott
These old trucks were used hard and often not well kept so as ALBQU-F1 said that mileage would definitely suggest a compete overhaul if it's not been opened up. If it were me, I would look under the valve covers and Valley Pan as suggested. If it's clean I'd put it back together and drive it for a season or so.If it's caked with goo, rebuild it.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 121
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From: Northwest PA (Erie)
Oh the questions. What's the PO doing with the truck if he's removing the engine and Tranny. I'm sure the cab would be of interest to someone on this site.
These old trucks were used hard and often not well kept so as ALBQU-F1 said that mileage would definitely suggest a compete overhaul if it's not been opened up. If it were me, I would look under the valve covers and Valley Pan as suggested. If it's clean I'd put it back together and drive it for a season or so.If it's caked with goo, rebuild it.
These old trucks were used hard and often not well kept so as ALBQU-F1 said that mileage would definitely suggest a compete overhaul if it's not been opened up. If it were me, I would look under the valve covers and Valley Pan as suggested. If it's clean I'd put it back together and drive it for a season or so.If it's caked with goo, rebuild it.
I discovered something yesterday as I was trying to clean this old girl up a little... the original yellow paint is still very much visible on the intake manifold, block, oil pan, and bell housing. The heads and rocker covers, though, are painted black. I think this is a good indicator that the heads were worked on somewhere along the line, because all of the pictures that I found show that the heads were also yellow:
I took the rocker cover off of one side to take a look, and don't see any real signs of excessive sludge or wear. But I will admit, I'm not familiar enough to know exactly what to look for.
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Believe Nothing
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,513
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From: W. Central FL.
Yes, black heads and valve covers would suggest the heads have been off. The problem with these engines was the oil passage between the block and the head. There is an offset of about an inch where the oil had a tendency to congeal or coke and block flow to the rockers. I would make sure the valves are in adjustment, do frequent oil changes and run it.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2017
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From: Northwest PA (Erie)
I guess it makes sense to think that there was more work done to the heads than just cleaning the passages, though, because they were painted a different color, right?
I'm planning on pulling the heads anyway and doing the valve work suggested by BlueOvalRage in reply #6, because it would be stupid not to with the engine being out. The Dennis Carpenter catalog lists pistons for the 239, but only shows for years 48-53 (flathead?) and not for 54 and up. I would like to think that the bore would be the same, but if that's the case, wouldn't they show them as applicable to 54-55 as well? None of the gasket kits they offer list the 54-and-up 239, just for 48-53. But based on what I have removed from my engine so far, it looks like the gaskets shown for the 54-64 256 and 272 engines are the same. Also, they include 54-55 for all the camshaft, crankshaft, valve, and rocker arm parts, though. Confusing.... l guess I'll need to call and talk to someone.
Thanks for your input.
I'm planning on pulling the heads anyway and doing the valve work suggested by BlueOvalRage in reply #6, because it would be stupid not to with the engine being out. The Dennis Carpenter catalog lists pistons for the 239, but only shows for years 48-53 (flathead?) and not for 54 and up. I would like to think that the bore would be the same, but if that's the case, wouldn't they show them as applicable to 54-55 as well? None of the gasket kits they offer list the 54-and-up 239, just for 48-53. But based on what I have removed from my engine so far, it looks like the gaskets shown for the 54-64 256 and 272 engines are the same. Also, they include 54-55 for all the camshaft, crankshaft, valve, and rocker arm parts, though. Confusing.... l guess I'll need to call and talk to someone.
Thanks for your input.
Believe Nothing
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,513
Likes: 394
From: W. Central FL.
I would think anyone pulling heads for any reason would do a valve job. Short story is, we don't know. All we know is the engine runs good. (79000 miles on it, and still runs really good) We don't know what kind of compression the engine has or do we? Can we see a good flow of oil to both ends of both rocker shafts?
Blue oval rage brought up the problems with valves burning when they recess and close up. This is why it is so important to keep the solid valve lifters in adjustment to prevent them from closing up and burning..
That early Y block had many similarities with the later Y blocks and many parts are not interchangeable. There has been lots of discussion about the differences. I am not knowledgeable enough on the differences to make positive statements as to the differences.
Edit: I would drop and pan and see what things looked like there.
Blue oval rage brought up the problems with valves burning when they recess and close up. This is why it is so important to keep the solid valve lifters in adjustment to prevent them from closing up and burning..
That early Y block had many similarities with the later Y blocks and many parts are not interchangeable. There has been lots of discussion about the differences. I am not knowledgeable enough on the differences to make positive statements as to the differences.
Edit: I would drop and pan and see what things looked like there.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,698
Likes: 823
From: Wentzville, MO
Maybe these will help:
Y
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/hist...-of-the-1950s/
Y
Also you might have better input from the Y-Block forum. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum56/
Y
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/hist...-of-the-1950s/
Y
Also you might have better input from the Y-Block forum. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum56/
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,287
Likes: 1,052
From: NM
Check with Egge Machine for the correct pistons. DC is listing flat V8 pistons, not the Y-block 239. Likewise, check a FelPro catalog for the correct gaskets.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25,351
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From: Central PA
I, too, recommend the Felpro gaskets. Do you have a shop manual for 54/55?
Good point ray brought up about clogged oil passages. Should not have that problem today with detergent oil and proper oil changes
Good point ray brought up about clogged oil passages. Should not have that problem today with detergent oil and proper oil changes
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2017
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From: Northwest PA (Erie)