I will share some facts and opinions on this subject.
First, I have checked and checked and double checked and I have not found ANY state that uses the door sticker for legal max capacity. Some provinces in Canada do, but they might allow what ever the law is in your home state or province.
This is a breakdown of the most common STATE laws.
1 max total load 80,000 lbs
2 max axle weight 20,000lbs ( Federal law allows 24,000 for busses and RVs)
3 no more weight on each tire than the posted max weight of the tire in the configuration use (single or dual) This is going to be the number one limit on most RVs
There is much more, but they don't really apply to RVs
Next, LIABILITY insuarance.
It doesn't matter what you do, how stupid you are, and how many laws you break, your liability insurance will cove you. This is by law. Look at it this way. you are driving along obeying all the laws and some drunk guy going 80mph in a 55 crosses the line on a corner and slams into you. His insurance doesn't say too bad, he was speeding and drunk, since he was breaking the law we don't have to pay you???? Yes they do!!!!! This would also apply to an unsafe rig, bad brakes, warn tires, overloaded etc..
Next, what does the weight that is on the door sticker represent? is it safety or reliability?
If you think about it there is not enough information on the door sticker to make a determination for safety. I work in heavy industry. Many vehicles have a max load, but it also give the max speed with the load and "on a smooth, flat, hard surface.
Lets say for this application we have a max GVW of 10,000lbs
Would it be unsafe to put 11,000lbs on it, move the truck 500 feet, art 10mph on a flat paved road? how about the same weight at 80mph on a windy, gravel, mountain road?
What is harder on the truck mechanicals? 10,000lbs at 80mph on a rough mountain road the requires lots on breaking an accelerating, or 11,000 on smooth, flat, asphalt, at 55mph?
There is REALLY no weight that makes you 100% unsafe, or 100% SAFE. Any time a truck is loaded it will change the COG (center of gravity) of the truck and the handling, accelerating and breaking will changes. If the driver does not make changes in the way they drive as the load changes they will not be safe, even if under the trucks weight limit.
Some manufactures purposely lower the max GVW for licensing in some states. Many states consider anything over 10,001 lbs a commercial vehicle and the licensing and insurance for the truck would be to expensive for recreational users. The truck might be the same in evry way as one that has a max GVW of 11,000lbs, but its in a less restrictive class of vehicles.
Now lets talk about if the door sticker represents other than safety.
You go buy a brand new truck rated at 10,000lbs, you load it up to 12,000 continuous use on rough county roads. the brakes, wheel bearing, front steering components, springs,, and drive train is constantly breaking or wearing out faster than it should. Shoud the manufacturer pay for these repairs under warrantee? They determined that 10,000lbs is the max capacity that will return normal component life, you go over that and stuff just won't last as long as an empty truck. So the door sticker does have some relationship to what the components can handle and still be reliable. It will just be one component, like the springs or the tires that limit the max GVW of a rig. Its always rated to the weakest link of the system. Changing the tires and or springs might change the true engineered capacity, but it wont changes whats on the door sticker.
So here is my opinion.
I have been over the door sticker on every truck I have owned, most of the time I didn't know it, truck handled completely fine, but always changed my speed and following distance when loaded, even when for sure UNDER the max GVW. I always keep my trucks in good condition, tires have good thread and not too old and weather checked, brakes and steering in good condition and I don't use cheap replacement parts.
When it come to slide in campers the biggest problem is the vertical COG is changed. It is NOT going to be as stable as when empty. Even if well under the GVW, the truck could be dangerous, especially if driven like a sports car .
Time and time again I see a lifted, hopped up Diesel rig towing or hauling in the fast lane well over the speed limits because they have a need to show off. This is more dangerous than over the GVW when the driver is being cautions and paying attention.
This brings me to what most people think when over loading, the brakes wont stop you. Like posted before, it might not be the breaks that are the limiting factor of the GVW, it might be the tires. So answer me this, what takes more total stopping distance? An unloaded truck doing 85mph (common speed in many states with 80mph speed limit)or a loaded truck at 55mph? Just the reaction distance will be over 30% more than the slower truck.
In conclusion, I do not recommend going over the posted GVWR or GCVWR, but I do not think just because someone does they are unsafe or dangerous. If they realize they have a heavy load and change the way the drive, They are safer then all the people texting, speeding, eating, impaired (intoxicants or sleepy), or aggressive drivers.

 

Again people are going to do what people are going to do. Everyone always has a rationale for why they do what they do. This topic has been beat to death all over the Internet on every truck camper forum as well as multiple RV sites.

As to state laws not using door stickers, I posted the same thing a good while back and someone posted in and corrected me, and I did find it specifically referenced in Montana law in non-commercial applications. Not saying it is enforced, but it is in print (or at least was). Have to dig for it though. It was not easy to find and I doubt most folks including LEOs even know it is there.

Single issue not addressed above is civil liability, which is an absolute slam dunk if the person involved in the accident with you has their wits about them enough to take down information. Has it ever happened? Probably not. Could it? Sure.

 

bobv60, the one thing you did not address in your lengthy post was the possibility that, following an accident that cost someone their life (or lives), a very thorough accident investigation determines that you had exceeded the manufacturer's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and the amount of legal jeopardy this might cause you, potentially up to an Involuntary Manslaughter charge.

 

I think most often things that obvious are often forgotten. Having a concealed carry permit does not remove my legal liability if I shoot someone. In my opinion the reason there are so few examples is simply due to the fact that accidents involving RVs of all persuasions are rare and to date attorneys have not focused their attention at them as a possible revenue source.

 

So would speeding, drinking, texting, following too close and so on. But there is one difference and I did mention in my post.
In the USA the legal weight l limit for a vehicle is NOT the door sticker. It would be much easier to prove you where following too close or exceeding the safe speed for conditions than if you where overweight.
ANY accident that results in a fatality and you where at fault, even if its because you couldn't stop in the ice, you could be sued ( you should have had studded tires, or not even been on the road). That is a good reason the have more liability insurance than the minimum required by law.
Lets talk about a law suit.
My daughter was injured in a rear end accident while she was stopped at a light. 100% other driver fault.
We ended up getting a lawyer. We got the max that the other driver was insured to. We could have gone for more from the driver but the lawyer did not want to, and advised not to. The reason being is it is VERY difficult to get a worth wile amount from privet induviales. In many cases it will cost you more than you will get back. If your net worth in in the millions it might worth wile for someone to sue you, but people worth millions also have large "'umbrella" policies that protect them.
ANY time we get on the road we are taking the responsibility to drive safely, but even a quick laps in judgement can have catastrophic results. the odds are you will cause an accident by crossing the middle line, running a stop sign, not reacting quick enough to sudden changes in traffic and so on.
Please answer these questions HONESTLY! Have you EVER driven over the posted speed limit?
Have you weighed EVERY load you ever had on your truck?
I shared my opinion, and you have every right to have your own. That doesn't mean that one of us HAS TO BE WRONG. I am not going to tell you what to do, just like I am not going to tell someone that is over the door sticker weight that he/she will kill some one and rot in hell. I firmly believe that if the driver of a vehicle that is over the door sticker and driving responsibly is not the biggest problem on the road today. I could start naming them, but I don't have the time.

 

Just so I'm clear, are you saying running overweight would not be an aggravating factor in the case of injury or death?

 

I believe attorneys already have. Lok at the advertisements on TV, Radio, Billboards. The thing is they do not need to prove you where overweight. If you didn't stop in time and rear-ended someone its your fault. Maybe you could have stopped in time if you where under the door sticker, maybe not, doesn't matter., you still hit them when you where parked. Would it matter if a semi truck was loaded or empty when it rear ended you while you are stopped at a red light?
If you think about it being overweight by itself will not cause an accident. There is going to be more involved, and it will be easier to prove that speed, inattention, distraction, following too close, was the cause.
In the 70s my dad had 1970 International 1200 pickup. DANA 60 rear and 44 front axle. It didn't have a door sticker for max weight, no trucks in that era had them. he had a 11' wood cab over camper on it. He made his own extendable rear bumper for the truck-by itself it probably overloaded the truck.
It had drum brakes front and rear with biased ply tires no sway bars front or rear. That truck was a handful to drive. Probably was the most unsafe truck I ever drove, even when empty.
For those of you that are old enough to remember, almost all camp trailer where pulled by cars in the 60s. there where no crew cab trucks to haul the family.
Todays vehicles, even though they haul much larger and heaverier rigs are much safer than rigs made 10 or 20 years ago. Just look at the size of the disk brakes on the newest trucks.

 

Bob,

My point is simply this. Yes, you are absolutely right, you can be sued for anything by anyone. A big however is how easy you make it for the other person. In the case of weight, just as with texting or any other aggravating factor, it does make a difference how easy you make it for the other side, even if the insurance carrier is paying the toll. The same is true for criminal charges. If you have worked in court, you know aggravating and mitigating factors play a role in decisions.

Right now I am mostly retired so I work on a small dealer's lot a few hours a week. If you roll in with an F150 and want to buy one of the large used travel trailers he has, he will not sell it to you. He's not just trying to cover the buyer's butt, he also wants to cover his own. Same thing with the other dealer I used to work for.I think we all do this to varying degrees on our lives so folks decide how much they can speed and or how many words they can text, etc., etc. We all decide which risk factors we want to bear in life.

So for me, I have a weight slip for my truck, I have a weight slip for my truck and our fifth wheel, and I have a weight slip for our truck with our truck camper. With those CAT scale readouts, I know I am running with weight to spare. To the best of my honest knowledge, I have never run overweight. Of course, that is just me and I know that is not a lot of other folks. Not saying I never speed. We all have our lacunae.

Steve

 

so funny to watch

 

Hey dude,

You have your camper on a dually, so you just get to chuckle quietly.

 

bobv60, you responded by talking about civil suits while I was talking about criminal charges. Two different things entirely. And carrying a large insurance policy ain't gonna mean squat if you are looking at charges that could send you away for years.

But you know what? I'm not a lawyer, and as far as I know, you're not a lawyer. And if two non-lawyer's arguing about the law on the Internet isn't the biggest waste of time and bandwidth there is, I can't imagine what else might be. So I'm just gonna bow out of this thread now.

 

I have a little different persepctive as I testified in court on a number of occasions as an "expert" and also worked behind the scenes with attorneys on a number of cases. Different career, but all the same rules apply. What I came away with at some simple thoughts.

1. Our justice systems essentially makes decisions. Whether they are "fair or just" I believe can be hotly debated.
2. No one should want to find themselves in court. It is expensive and incredibly time consuming.
3. If only a judge is hearing the case, the decision is more likely to make sense.
4. If there is a jury, all bets are off the table.

So, for me, if I can do simple things to lessen the chance of finding myself in court, criminal or civil, I do it.

 

That all makes since to me. Good points all!
For me its to slow down and obey the speed limits, more so when loaded. In fact I do my best to stay off freeways when loaded. I just got back from a trop including Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Arizona. Some speed limits are 80 MPH, for truck too. To me that is too fast for a loaded vehicle, including big semis. Think about how long it will take to stop 80,000lbs+ at 80+ MPH. No mater how good the brakes, that is a lot of energy to get rid of. Things are going to get ran over!
I truly hope you took everything I said as intended, not as wright and wrong, but as two different views discussing an issue.

 

I'm over my "factory" GVWR sticker by 600lbs with the same year C/O, and this would be overweight on pretty much anything but a single cab dually (might even be over on that) or a super-duty, which would now be the F450, and this truck is a factory Camper Special. The factory rated GVWR's of those days were subjective and made no sense most of the time. I had a Centurion built F250 dually that had a 13,500 GVWR on there sticker and the ONLY difference between it and the stock truck was the dually axle (done with propitiatory adapters) and 3 added leafs on the rear spring pack with 1 ton front springs...go figure. The only real concern is the axle or tire ratings as long as I'm under both DOT doesn't care.

 

I have my Eagle cap 1200 on a 2011 F450. I do believe I have enough truck. On the new f450 Pickup the GVWR is the same as the F350 DRW. 14,000lbs, but the 450 has 19.5 tires and wheels rated at 4,000lbs+ each, and much larger front and rear brakes but on paper it has less payload than the lighter duty F350 DRW. The door numbers can have as much to do as keeping a vehicle in a certain class as actual capacity.