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idi in f150

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:49 PM
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idi in f150

ok, last year i found the r&d extended cab build and became obsessed with the old idi. lately ive really needed a truck, seems like almost every day im using my focus st as a truck.. well im to upside down on the st to trade it right now so ive started looking at old idi trucks on CL and fb market place and such. at the same time ive been looking up things like basic performance and mpg stuff too. then i find it... the r&d bronco... you know what, i hate you for that haha jk... but it got me thinking. ive had my grandfathers rust free 82 f150 2wd long wheel base in dry storage for the past 8 years, i blew the gutless 302 in high school.

my goals for the truck mostly commuter, maybe on the rarest of occasions pulling a single car trailer. and a fair amount of highway driving. i want good power too, about 300hp at the tire. not sure what kinda tq thatd net me.
im really interested in a SMALL compound set up, but thats unlikely. over drive auto is a must.
i have line on a genuine hx35 if i want it.

the truck came equipped with a 302/aod combo with the 9 in the rear. memory wants me to say its a 2.92 gear but im probably wrong.
my questions are
will i destroy my truck (i dont beat on my stuff anymore)
can the 9 handle the power in stock form
will an e40d handle the power in stock form
what mods will the idi require for the power goal to be reliable.
at a bare minimum the idi will get a full freshen up and balanced.
ive been on the R&D sight, i just dont want to go too crazy with it
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:57 PM
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My recommendation is to just stick with a bamks sidewinder or ats/factory turbo kit. The hx35 is good but on the small side for doing towing. There was a guy running one and R&D messed with and said it ran strong but backpressure was high. The main reason I recommend the kits above is there is no messing around, it'll go together as it should with predictable results, minimizing downtime, time invested, and likely money. This will get you to 200 or a little more horse at the wheels and knocking on 500lbft of torque which is plenty for a half ton and a single car. My n/a wore out old idi in a 7000 pound truck will yank a car 65-70 all day no problem so you'll be rocking.

The e4od will have no issues with that level of power other than the normal issues that they have. The 9 inch will likely be fine but you may be pushing it if your trailer and car are heavy. The 9 inch could easily be built to shrug off that weight and power. That gear ratio will be mighty tall with overdrive on, unless you only run interstate you'll want to move to 3.55/3.54 gears to avoid lugging all day.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by brandonbeezy View Post
ive had my grandfathers rust free 82 f150 2wd long wheel base in dry storage for the past 8 years, i blew the gutless 302 in high school.


You need to BEEF UP the suspension. The fully dressed IDI is substantially more weight than that ol' 302. If you drop an IDI in there, it'll bottom out.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:15 PM
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planning on stock height 2wd f250 coils up front at minimum

somthing like 600lbs more correct?
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PlumCrazy7 View Post
My recommendation is to just stick with a bamks sidewinder or ats/factory turbo kit. The hx35 is good but on the small side for doing towing. There was a guy running one and R&D messed with and said it ran strong but backpressure was high. The main reason I recommend the kits above is there is no messing around, it'll go together as it should with predictable results, minimizing downtime, time invested, and likely money. This will get you to 200 or a little more horse at the wheels and knocking on 500lbft of torque which is plenty for a half ton and a single car. My n/a wore out old idi in a 7000 pound truck will yank a car 65-70 all day no problem so you'll be rocking.

The e4od will have no issues with that level of power other than the normal issues that they have. The 9 inch will likely be fine but you may be pushing it if your trailer and car are heavy. The 9 inch could easily be built to shrug off that weight and power. That gear ratio will be mighty tall with overdrive on, unless you only run interstate you'll want to move to 3.55/3.54 gears to avoid lugging all day.

what turbine housing was used? i know there are a few different ones available.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:01 PM
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You mentioned being upside down on your econobox. If money is a consideration an IDI is probably not the way to go. I've got over $3k into freshening up a 7.3. Rings and bearings with a hone on the factory low mile bottom end, valve job which I got a real good price on the work done since the shop got backed up and took forever, R&D cam, studs. Nothing fancy or extravagant and shy of a full rebuild. I also have a fairly low mile 100cc pump and injectors I'll be swapping onto this, there's over a grand right there. Already have a low mile rebuilt turbo on the truck, another grand there. Starting from scratch you'll probably be over $5k into the engine, and you still need a transmission, suspension, conversion mounts, fuel system changes, and all the other odds and ends... This is all DIY except any machine work, if you can't do it all yourself it'll cost more.

Personally if it was my truck I'd pick up a running 351w, go through it as needed for a mild performance build... Up compression, modern cam, proper carb, headers. You'll be into it around $1500-$2000. If your AOD is good run that for now, if not pick up a ZF5 for $500 and drop that in. You'll get similar or better MPG as the IDI, have 350+ HP, no suspension modification required, drops right in with existing small block mounts, no surprises.

Don't get me wrong, the IDI would be cool and is a great simple reliable platform but they're not cheap. It'll also take a lot more time to do an IDI build for those power levels than it will to slap together a straightforward and simple small block.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:54 PM
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the upside down part is i owe 17k on it and ford offered me 12k stack that on top of your average ecoboost 150 say 13 and newer, it quickly becomes cheaper to just build the truck. also, the reason i havent built a 351 is because in my area people think theyre gods gift and charge way more than they are worth. the idi are cheap near me and would have better street manners than a mild built gasser. also the st is hardly an econo box. mine made 308 ft lbs at the tires but my in town mpg average is around 16 to 18.
i like the idea of the 200/500 set up like plum said, and that would be nicer commuter than a gasser with the same power.

i saw on another forum that the diesel mount buckets will slap right on to the 150 frame, and that even the holes line up??? (not the rubber mounts but the pedestals they sit on)
i can do it all but machine work my self, and i have friends who are machinists. i was a heavy line tech for chevy for a few years, now i build landing gear at piper aircraft.

eventually i would like to turn it up though, which is another reason why the diesel is my number one choice right now. more turbo, more fuel more power, still nice to drive. obviously down the road.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:06 PM
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i was honestly thinking r&d injectors, cam, and studs, and building my own hot side (headers and all)
when you guys lower compression how much is generally taken off the head of the piston?
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by brandonbeezy View Post
the upside down part is i owe 17k on it and ford offered me 12k stack that on top of your average ecoboost 150 say 13 and newer, it quickly becomes cheaper to just build the truck. also, the reason i havent built a 351 is because in my area people think theyre gods gift and charge way more than they are worth. the idi are cheap near me and would have better street manners than a mild built gasser.

i saw on another forum that the diesel mount buckets will slap right on to the 150 frame, and that even the holes line up??? (not the rubber mounts but the pedestals they sit on)
Borrow money for a vehicle is just a bad idea in general. It's even worse to roll debt from one bad decision into the next one, but you know that. Stay within your means, if you've got the cash to do an IDI build and swap into the pickup after paying off the $5k debt on the econobox, then go for it if it makes sense for your situation.

Of course a modern diesel pickup is going to have better street manners than a drag car, totally different vehicles.

Around here a good small block to build will run $200-$500. The upper end of that will get you something you could run as is if you're a gambler or broke. Years ago I ended up with several small blocks, all good engines. An 80s 302, 80s 351w, 68 302 and 69 302. Couldn't give them away and sat on them for almost a year. Started at $100/ea for the late engines and $200/ea for the early engines. I think the 351w did sell for $100, lowered price on the rest to $50 and no takers, then lowered to pay whatever you think is fair. I eventually scrapped them as I needed the space. All good running engines, shame as a guy called asking for numbers off the '69 engine to see if it was correct for his Mustang restoration... It was, but he was a week late.
For comparison I picked up a low mile 7.3 for $500. I thought it was a good price. Around here I see a lot of listings for IDI engines for $800-$1200, seems pretty common for a typical worn out IDI that might have barely ran at some point. I did pick up a complete IDI for $50 a couple years ago, it was seized and came with a ZF5 I bought for $250 (or was it $300?). Parting out that engine paid for that purchase as well as rebuilding the ZF5.

Six, small block, big block, and diesel frame perches all interchange between any 80-97 frame.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:09 AM
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What's wrong with the 302 in your f150? Repairing it would definitely be the cheapest way to go.

I do think an IDI in an f150 would be cool though. Didn't C***y put a Detroit diesel in the Blazer in the 80s? Ford should have done the same by puttinng an IDI in the Bronco. I thought the Blazer like the Bronco was a 1/2 ton.

Not to hijack, sorry...
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Olds64 View Post
What's wrong with the 302 in your f150? Repairing it would definitely be the cheapest way to go.

I do think an IDI in an f150 would be cool though. Didn't C***y put a Detroit diesel in the Blazer in the 80s? Ford should have done the same by puttinng an IDI in the Bronco. I thought the Blazer like the Bronco was a 1/2 ton.

Not to hijack, sorry...
they offered a 3/4 ton blazer to the military as the cucv with the 6.2 in it. So they just adapted it to civilian life.
the 302 is long gone as it locked up the oil pump one night. I then swapped in what i was told was a 5.0 (50oz balance) and i used a 5.0 flex plate. The engine eventually destroyed it self. Ive had bad luck with the ford small blocks. I really dont want to use another.. thats why its been setting for so long.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:53 AM
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Grenading the second 302 is what happens when you don't check things and pay attention to detail. We've all learned a few lessons the hard way. The SBF and SBC are nearly identical platforms, there's a reason they have both been in production so long and are so popular. If you don't like the SBF, consider a 385 series. Very cheap power, iron heads will support 600-700 HP depending on castings. 450 HP and 550 ft/lbs is a cheap and easy build that will give good MPG for a daily driver.

Don't get me wrong, the IDI is a great engine, but if cost is a consideration you'll never reach ROI over a SBF or 385 series.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:23 AM
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I learned the hard way with that. The big block sounds enticing, actually for a long time i wanted a 460 for it, but my prioritys have changed. Still would like a swb with a 460 though, cannot deny that.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:18 PM
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While it costs around $4000-5000 to rebuild the IDI (I just went thru that job on the cheap because I was able to combine two engines into one, so the only major cost was rings, bearings, heads, etc), you have to think about it from an investment standpoint. A good IDI rebuild should last 250K and potentially 500K. If you put $2500 toward an overstressed 302, you would have to build three 302's to get the longevity and durability of the standard rebuild IDI.

Also, I'd dispute the MPG claim. You'd have to tune up that 302 hardcore to get 300+ HP, which means decent fuel and compression mods, and that means the mileage will hurt. Also, if you haul or tow anything, the IDI will pull without much MPG impact, but the 302 will feel the pinch. Plus, in a F150, I'd expect the MPG to be similar to R&D bronco build, and IIRC, he got high-20-somethings MPG due to the lesser weight and other factors. You can't get a 302 to be that kind of hypermiler unless you sacrifice HP and torque. I ran a 351MC in my Tbird when I was in high school, and I got around 5mpg. Now that I exclusively run TDI's and IDI's, I never looked back at the gassers.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:22 PM
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With all that said, I'd not be inclined to put an IDI in an F150, because if I'm going to invest in a massive custom IDI build, I'd want to be able to haul, load, drive, pull, and accommodate as much as possible to take advantage of the engine. That's kind of why I like the IDI Vans, Quadcabs, and Centurions, because I can max out the seat capacity and hauling quantity.
 
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