Aluminum 427 Update
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
Just got my cam. It's the only piece I have so far. For you guys that don't know about my project it is a 511ci Shelby aluminum 427. The project was going to be an all aluminum dual quad tunnel port, but I switched heads to a set of Keith Craft CNC ported Edelbrocks. Intake flow is better than the tunnel port heads, and the exhaust is a major improvement (80-90cfm) over a tunnel port exhaust. I should be getting my block, bottom end, and heads in the next 30 days.
Anyway, back to the cam, it's a Cam Research solid roller, 262/268 at .050, 295/300 advertised, .686 lift with a 110 lobe separation angle ground straight up. I don't know how it will run but I know it's PRETTY!
Just had to share.
-Scouder
Anyway, back to the cam, it's a Cam Research solid roller, 262/268 at .050, 295/300 advertised, .686 lift with a 110 lobe separation angle ground straight up. I don't know how it will run but I know it's PRETTY!
Just had to share.
-Scouder
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Texas
Aluminum 427 Update
My best guess as to how it will run...thirsty :-) Aren't you running like 12:1 CR. That rocket fuel might get expensive at 50 gallons per hour :-) Hopefully, you were right on your CR analysis and you'll be OK on the cheaper stuff. I'm a bit worried about mine at just 10.5:1. I'd really like it to run on 93 octane pump gas or even lower if needed.
How does yours look on the Desktop Dyno?
What intake setup are you running?
Just when I thought my motor project was getting out of hand, you have to come and one-up me :-) Mine's getting pretty close to firing, hopefully within the next week.
How does yours look on the Desktop Dyno?
What intake setup are you running?
Just when I thought my motor project was getting out of hand, you have to come and one-up me :-) Mine's getting pretty close to firing, hopefully within the next week.
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
I've been watching your thread. I'm sure it will all be worth it when you finally let your new motor stretch its legs a little.
Yeah, I'm putting the numbers to the test at 12.25:1. I talked with the cam grinder and he agreed that I should be ok on 91 octane at my altitude. Out of curiosity, what altitude will you be running at?
Desktop Dyno puts mine at 739 sea level HP and 661 on Torque, if you believe Desktop Dyno. I'm gonna use the Edelbrock Victor manifold with a Mighty Demon carb. Also, I'm just guessing, but I'll bet she drinks more than 50 gallons per hour at full throttle.
-Scouder
Yeah, I'm putting the numbers to the test at 12.25:1. I talked with the cam grinder and he agreed that I should be ok on 91 octane at my altitude. Out of curiosity, what altitude will you be running at?
Desktop Dyno puts mine at 739 sea level HP and 661 on Torque, if you believe Desktop Dyno. I'm gonna use the Edelbrock Victor manifold with a Mighty Demon carb. Also, I'm just guessing, but I'll bet she drinks more than 50 gallons per hour at full throttle.
-Scouder
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From: Texas
Aluminum 427 Update
Wow, those are some big numbers! What RPM do these peaks come at? Mine is definitely not a screamer. HP peaks at 4500 rpm with the 4.125" stroke. I'm only running a 750 CFM carb, but the power didn't move much with a larger carb setup. I'll be running at about 650 feet of altitude, pretty much seal level here in Texas.
What stroke are you running? Wonder what it takes to get my power band up higher. Not that I really want that, I just wonder what is needed: better flowing Heads, bigger valves?
What stroke are you running? Wonder what it takes to get my power band up higher. Not that I really want that, I just wonder what is needed: better flowing Heads, bigger valves?
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
Gtex,
My HP peak is right at 6500. Torque peaks at 5000, but starts at 480ft/lbs at 2000.
I'm interested in a couple of things on your motor. I want to run your compression information and need the following:
Bore.
Rod length ( I am assuming 6.7")
Compression height on your pistons. This is the distance between the pin and the top of the piston.
Deck height. This should be 10.17 minus any milling that might have been done at your machine shop.
Are you using a Felpro head gasket?
If you can get me this info, I will see how it compares to some of the other FEs that I have info on. It might give us some idea of how tolerant your engine will be to detonation.
As for power band. You already have some pretty good flow on your heads. I would say all you need to move your power band would be more cam if you have good exhaust flow.
-Scouder
My HP peak is right at 6500. Torque peaks at 5000, but starts at 480ft/lbs at 2000.
I'm interested in a couple of things on your motor. I want to run your compression information and need the following:
Bore.
Rod length ( I am assuming 6.7")
Compression height on your pistons. This is the distance between the pin and the top of the piston.
Deck height. This should be 10.17 minus any milling that might have been done at your machine shop.
Are you using a Felpro head gasket?
If you can get me this info, I will see how it compares to some of the other FEs that I have info on. It might give us some idea of how tolerant your engine will be to detonation.
As for power band. You already have some pretty good flow on your heads. I would say all you need to move your power band would be more cam if you have good exhaust flow.
-Scouder
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Texas
Aluminum 427 Update
I didn't get much info from Flatlander on the short-block, but I did get about a 3 page report from Ross Racing Pistons on the custom pistons. I just don't know what it's telling me. There is a value labeled CH , maybe that's Compression Height. I'll get that for you when I get home. The target was 10.5:1
The rods are 6.7", and I am using the Fel-Pro gasket (.040" I think). I know that the block was decked, but I don't have a value, I think he used the term "mild" decking?
As you can see, this has been a bit dissapointing dealing with Flatlander. Between the delay and the lack of communication, I just about put them in touch with my wife (Lawyer), but I didn't want her to see how much I invested in this motor:-) Of course the short bock is only about half of the investment now that I've gone with the Hydraulic roller and valve train.
The rods are 6.7", and I am using the Fel-Pro gasket (.040" I think). I know that the block was decked, but I don't have a value, I think he used the term "mild" decking?
As you can see, this has been a bit dissapointing dealing with Flatlander. Between the delay and the lack of communication, I just about put them in touch with my wife (Lawyer), but I didn't want her to see how much I invested in this motor:-) Of course the short bock is only about half of the investment now that I've gone with the Hydraulic roller and valve train.
Last edited by gtex; Sep 21, 2003 at 01:23 PM.
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
Yes, the CH is the number I'll need. I'll plug in a deck mill number of .020 when I get the CH number. That will represent a "mild" deck and will set your deck height at 10.15. Fairly common.
-Scouder
-Scouder
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
Gtex,
I ran your numbers making a few assumptions. It looks to me like you have a Dynamic compression ratio of about 7.97. Common theory holds that a dynamic compression ratio should be between 7.5 and 8.5 to run on 91 octane. You are dead on in the middle. Add to this the fact that you are running aluminum heads and that buys you some more margin.
My opinion (I'm no expert for sure): You'll be fine on 94, and may even be able to use a lower grade. Only testing will tell. JMO.
I mocked up your engine on Desktop Dyno with a dual plane manifold and showed 550 torque at 4500rpm and 550hp at 6000. Show you at 480 torque at 2000, same as mine. Those are some pretty impressive numbers, even if you figure a decrease to compensate for optimistic numbers on DD.
-Scouder
I ran your numbers making a few assumptions. It looks to me like you have a Dynamic compression ratio of about 7.97. Common theory holds that a dynamic compression ratio should be between 7.5 and 8.5 to run on 91 octane. You are dead on in the middle. Add to this the fact that you are running aluminum heads and that buys you some more margin.
My opinion (I'm no expert for sure): You'll be fine on 94, and may even be able to use a lower grade. Only testing will tell. JMO.
I mocked up your engine on Desktop Dyno with a dual plane manifold and showed 550 torque at 4500rpm and 550hp at 6000. Show you at 480 torque at 2000, same as mine. Those are some pretty impressive numbers, even if you figure a decrease to compensate for optimistic numbers on DD.
-Scouder
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From: Texas
Aluminum 427 Update
Thanks for the numbers. They look good, albeit different than my DD calculations. I wonder what I am entering different.
Mine showed more torque and earlier in the power band, but less HP. I must have something entered incorrectly. I am entering all of the the cam timing as custom instead of entering the duration. Does that make sense?
Mine showed more torque and earlier in the power band, but less HP. I must have something entered incorrectly. I am entering all of the the cam timing as custom instead of entering the duration. Does that make sense?
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
Gtex,
Im entering the cam events in the cam tool on the main menu. I also have the flow numbers for stock edelbrocks and have entered them in the flow tool.
-Scouder
Im entering the cam events in the cam tool on the main menu. I also have the flow numbers for stock edelbrocks and have entered them in the flow tool.
-Scouder
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From: Evanston, WY
Aluminum 427 Update
Gtex,
I forgot, I'm entering your duration numbers at the advertised duration. If they are entered on the .050 numbers they are going to show a much toquier number because of the mild ramp speeds on that cam.
-Scouder
I forgot, I'm entering your duration numbers at the advertised duration. If they are entered on the .050 numbers they are going to show a much toquier number because of the mild ramp speeds on that cam.
-Scouder