I was set on doing a sump but at this point my truck gets fuel from the pickup tube since the ADII was all plug and play (aside from making custom length hoses) and it runs great with no fluctuation in fuel pressure.






Is it really necessary?


At this point I say no.


Thoughts?

 

There are pluses and minuses to the fuel sump... but if it works great and you hold fuel pressure then it should be fine.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?

 

What size hose are they now including tank to pump?

Are you planning on increased flow injectors?

 

Exactly the question to ask because it does matter. Regardless whether its a Air Dog or FASS pump the supply line size will determine longevity for both pump and motor.
It will run fine and keep up pressure wise when the pump assy is brand new.

Where the problems come in at when the OEM 5/16" fuel line is used are:

Pump itself will cavitate. Which is when a pump impeller pumps faster then the supply available. The fuel is moving faster then the supply therefore the pump is starved of fuel, which BTW is also the pump heads cooling system. Pump cavitation will cause damage to the pumps impellers rotors and casings.

The other issue it can present is not a full head of supply pressure is higher rpm for the motor itself. I know a guy with a 2005 F250 and he is on his third AD pump. He said there was a wire size issue, but he was chewing them up.


The bottom line is if you want to cover your rear run the 1/2" supply from pump to tank. The shorter the draw line to pump the better for the pump. A sump is much less work then dropping the tank I know that much lol.
Also AD pumps have had lots of issues with pumps, O-rings and motor problems over last 5-6 years. They claim the 4G is the answer and can safely installed plug and play without any of those issues.
From what I have read is they improved the relief system to move more fuel through at idle and low rpm's.

 

Yes sir. Granted I have not really stomped on the new build with sustained pulls but the short ones I did seemed to be fine.


What are the pros and cons?


One con I read a lot about is leaks!

 

I was able to mount the pump relatively close to the tank and really tucked up in the frame. I have seen some guys mount it closer to the tank to eliminate a 4' hose (which I doubt is an issue) and leave the pump totally exposed....no way

 

I'm in process of a story for moving the HFCM so this is good timing.

I thought they were using 1/2", so that is good. so it depends on the volume you need draw and if the suction side is deficient you'll see pressure dropping as the tell.

There still is the factory hard line within the tank, which should be 3/8". It's short, so just like with electrical wires length matters due to any wall resistance, so not as much of an impact. However, there is an issue.

In my story I talk about what I did at the tank, and thesis what I've written:


After removing the quick connects with the proper tool you are left with this, ample hard line to install rubber fuel lines, 3/8” suction and 5/16” return.

The factory addresses easing the line so the quick connection won’t damage the internal O-rings by swaging over the nose of the hard line. There are two problems with the methodology.

One is that it is a restriction to flow. It doesn’t matter on the return line, but I’d prefer it not be there on the suction side.

The second problem is sharp flow changes edges cause the release of entrained air. It’s the way AirDog or FASS work, and documented by Racor and SAE committees for decades. I’m sure this has been not an issue with the manner that Racor designed the secondary fuel filter and return system. Actually, I know it has been addressed. But even with my stock tune and stock injectors, it gives me a little room to make things ‘more better’.

Since stainless does not cut easily I took a conical stone bit in my Dremel and enlarged the hole to the full size, still retaining the rounded outside edge. Another option would have been to just cut it off close to the end with a cutoff wheel, then remove the burr, both ID and OD. Either method, debris will have to be removed from the tube if you want to do this, but it works fine without modification. I used Q-Tips to remove the metal debris.




I've read the stories of some installs of the sump leaking, and if it's not done well I can see the issue. and it becomes a big issue if the tank has to be replaced in the end. The advantage of the sump is the draw is lowered as there is less head, just like a well. But the force to get the fuel up the hose isn't that much as should be fine.

Another option instead of the sump is to replace the 3/8" tank line with a 1/2" line, which can be done in parallel. It's not that hard to do, McMaster sells stainless tubing and to address the new passage through the sender's top you use a bulkhead Swagelok/Yor-Lok fitting also from McMaster.

Again, that's if you see a pressure drop at full bore. Otherwise you're good.




And you'll need washers.




And tubing.






But again, you may be fine without any of this.

 

Nice info Toy Man, I suppose a guy could make his own draw tube with the through the wall connector. I picked up a FASS STK1003B which is a draw tube assy kit that is actually a 5/8" draw tube.
I think its bigger then I needed but its what Summit sent me and I installed it regardless. I had a 1/2" draw tube in my first 2006 F250 and same pump and I noticed the pump had a time priming itself with the bigger 5/8" hose. I have 5/8" from tank to pump but I want to change that to 1/2".

I posted this in another thread but will say it again here. I installed my FASS pump with stock supply lines and it growled when running. I was concerned enough to call FASS about it's cavitation. The FASS customer service said the pump would be fine with the OEM 3/8-5/16" supply but will like a 1/2" supply more. He said the pump will cavitate with smaller supply but the Titanium pump head won't care.

He left it at: if the noise is making me crazy install a 1/2" supply to the tank. Which I did and it went quiet immediately. I highly recommend installing the bigger supply line. That pump will last longer Titanium or not.


One note with using a sump:

I don't like the idea of it hanging below the tank. If I could get one to fit under the factory tank skid pan I would think about it. But they don't and I like a clean looking rig.
No modification look is my preference plus I could do the harpoon mod at the same time and fit 65 gallons of fuel in the tank. Maybe it was 6.5 more gallons ???

Sumps are slick and easy to install. I'm sure they do exactly what's needed too, as long as your ok with a fuel hose coming off the very bottom of the tank. Lots of guys praise them for sure.
I think its a mute point myself because the only thing that matters is the proper supply line feeding that fuel pump. Don't forget the ADII is not on the shelf at every parts store in the country. So you want to insure its installed so it will last the longest possible time.
Do it right and do it once.

Heres a shot of mine as you put exposed. lol



I have thought about boxing it in or just around the filters. Its a nice pump and very quiet with zero vibrations with the use of rubber isolators.

 

I looked at my post, I highlighted a 1/2" bulkhead connector, then tagged 3/8" in the other posts. Time for another CoQ10.

I agree if you hear noise it's time to go up in size. 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 1" whatever it takes.

If you can get a kit, more better.

 

HA! Didn't mean anything by it It just seems ....well "exposed" to me. I have run some stuff over on the highway (not by choice) and heard it making its way down the truck underbody. I think it would worry me.


If I do decide on a sump, it would be very easy to space the skidplate down to provide room for the sump and still leave it protected.


At this point I am just not quite sold on drilling a hole in my tank but I would consider increasing the draw straw size.....that would be an alternative.

 

I was sitting on the shi tter thinking about your exposed comment about you running over things and don't want to have a issue with a fuel pump on outside of the frame.

Well here you go :::::


^^ I ran over a guardrail pulled up posts railing and ripped half the front tire off and bent the rear axle as you can see in pic and that fuel pump wasn't so much as scratched.

I have seen lots of pics in the same place more or less. I have looked at rolling 3/32" aluminum sleeves to slip over the filters for that what if Gods mad at you moment. lol

I was figuring 2 jam bolts to pull sleeve tight per filter. But its really low on my concerns because its in front of that rear tire................

 

Dang! That is terrible.


When did that happen?

 

3+ years ago. Was all bad but as you can see the FASS pump was Superman.

The FASS pump was only thing salvageable ....LMAO

Oh yea 3 of the wheels and the 2013 tailgate. That pretty well summed it up.