Krump's Bro:

See this link, which is apparently from the Ablberta, CA gov't.:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex1351?opendocument

There are some diagrams (I don't know if one could call them "plans") some photos and text which I found interesting.

Gggc:

When you say:

...no pun intended, I "hear ya!" While I love the sounds of hi-perf. bikes, sleds, cars, trucks, airplanes, etc..., the sound of a B&S one-lunger, struggling to maintain 3,600 RPM, or monotonously maintaining ANY RPM above an idle, for that matter, annoys me. I choose to damage my hearing with loud music (L. Zep., 'Crowes, Aerosmith, Jane's Addiction, and some modern stuff, you name it) and NOT with little, droning, 4 stroke engines. I can't afford a Honda engine but I'm sure they're much more pleasant to listen to....

Consider This: My Dad and I want to build an ELECTRIC LOG SPLITTER. The only ones I have seen are puny 4 ton/110v. bench models. We want to build a full-on, towable electric splitter with 220v. Or convert an existing splitter to electric.

Now, you have to imagine this from my perspective:

1. I'm a night owl. I work a lot at night, even outside. I have neighbors--I'd like to work on MY schedule, not theirs.... In our old place, the cops came to complain about a 4 1/2" grinder, at 9 pm. Give me a break!

2. I listen to satellite radio, which is 24/7. There's some great talk shows on it, in addition to music. If the splitter were electric, instead of splitting being a boring chore, while I listen to the drone through my 30 dba-reducing muffs, I could be comfortable (no muffs!) and listen to my favorite radio show (Coast to Coast AM Radio--deals a lot with science and the paranormal).

3. While I love the smell of 2 stroke engines on saws, dirt bikes and, most of all, my wonderful Ski-doo Grand Touring, the smell of incompletely-combusted gasoline, out of the loudpipe of an inefficient, 4 stroke, flathead B&S engine, does nothing for me, other than it clings to my clothes.

4. I won't have to stabilize the gas, tune the engine, change the oil, or wonder if critters filled the shroud with dog hair and thistles, such that I will be burning a piston while it overheats, unnoticed.

5. Since I don't plan on splitting other people's wood, I'm not worried about not being able to run in places other than the homestead. I will have to have 220v service added to the outside of the house. While not cheap, I'm hoping that won't be a total waste in that perhaps this work could be incorporated into the addition of a generator transfer switch? I'm not sure if there's any way the outfeed for the splitter could function as the infeed for a generator, and I suspect that if so, it's against the Code, but screw it...I want an electric splitter anyway.

Does anyone have any idea how big a motor we'll need? I saw in an air compressor thread that the typical home 220v. circuit won't support more than about a 7.5 hp. motor, but I don't think we even need that much hp, actually. According to the Alberta site at the link, above, you need 30% LESS h.p. from an electric motor than you do from a gas engine, to make the same power. I assume this is b/c motors start making torque from RPM # 1? I'm betting a 5 hp., 220v, compressor motor would do it.

I'm not that smart a guy ...why hasn't some company already marketed a full-strength, electric splitter? IOW, if I've already thought of the benefits of such a splitter, why aren't they already being sold? I have scoured the net, even using "meta search engines," (that's how I found the Alberta site) and I've never seen anything but the 110v/4 ton modelettes.

Thanks in advance,

Peter

 

I was thinking about a electric with screw drive combination- might not be heavy duty but should work.

Either that or it would make an awesome garage door opener.

 

If It were me, I'd run down to my local tractor supply and get one of their 35 ton models. I think they've got 11 horse briggs I/C engines and two-stage pumps. Not the quietest engine as some have already mentioned, but that thing will split ANYTHING short of a log you wouldn't want to handle by yourself. think about it. Personally, I'm not going to split a log that I can't handle. Plus, these things go vertical so you don't have to lift the logs. think about your backs for a sec. Makes sense to me. I think they're like $1500. And buy their power plus thingy. A year after I bought it, the pump seized, and they covered it! I got a $150 pump for nothin. That pays for the power plus right there.
If you want to build your own, TSC has all the stuff to do that too. pumps, brackets, couplers, cylinders, valves, wheels and tires, hydraulic hoses, engines...you name it. you guys that want to build one, I'd say to take one that's already made for a gas engine, and just mount an electric motor in place to drive the hyd pump. And guess what (I gotta say it again ) TSC's got them too!!!
HTH
Clint

 

my father built an eletric splitter for a customer 12-15 years ago. b4 i joined the business. if i remember tomorrow, i'll ask him what was used for a motor and pump.

 

The most efficient log splitter ever is to simply have a son... worked for my dad. I happen to like splitting wood the "old fashioned way" but i suppose i'm good for something around here other than bailing hay

 

what ever you do don`t use a small car motor there was a guy back in nova scotia that did this and was trying to sell it to someone at a yardsale so he started it up and after about 2min. it blue up killin 2 people

 

I hear ya... Till I turned 18 I thought my first name was "GetWood".

 

i built a hydrolic log splitter with an elctric motor

i used a 2 hp 56 c face motor

13 GPM 2 stage pump

ram 2 1/2 inch inner

3 inch outer

love it so quiet split wood -- split all the wood in the garage you want and you ears never ring and you can talk and listen to radio with no problem

 

Drat! I was out of town and I totally missed this person's answer. Hope he see's this....
_____________________

No kidding--that's excellent. You're the first I've heard of that's built one (but I may be forgetting someone in this thread...).

If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain--for starters:

1. 110v or 240v?

2. What RPM motor?

3. What amps does the motor draw?

4. How is the cycle time compared to a good, 8 hp. gas splitter?

5. Is all of your equipment (pump, ram, valves, etc...) essentially the same, identical pieces you would have used for a gas splitter?

6. Any complications or surprises you'd care to share?

Thanks, friend.

Peter

 

Well I can probably answer some of that:

240V

1725

9.5A

Cycle time will depend on the cylinder stroke and how long it stays in high pressure mode.

At 13 GPM a 3" cylinder will travel 425"/min

A 2-1/2" rod is an odd size cylinder but it would run about 800"/min (I don't have tables for that size and I am too tired to calculate it now). A 2" rod would run 765"/min.

But when the pump hits the high side flow would drop. I am going to assume a 1500 PSI operating pressure so you would have a 2 GPM high pressure flow. Higher pressure means lower flow.

At 1500 PSI a 3" cylinder will produce 10,603 pounds of force. At 2500 PSI a 3" cyl will have 17,672 pounds.

At 2 GPM cylinder speeds are:

66"/min extend, and about 175"/min retract. Fortunately you are usually using the 13 GPM pump to retract.

Controls should be able to handle the backside cylinder flow of about 25 GPM when retracting.

Any more questions?

If you get more specific about system pressure, pump, and cylinder size let me know.

 

ok i have 2 hp motor i have it wired up for 220 v i can use it anyware there is a electric drier hookup

220 about 9 amps under load I think

i am using a 1800 rpm motor that i would like to change out to a 3600 i would guess that i would get close to double the cycle time but then i would loose some power so not sure if is going to happen yet ----have to wait

not sure if cycle times are splitting or just running it -- well i just ran it never timed it before and i am getting about 8-9 sec was not splitting wood at the time


the ram that i have i know is an odd size but i cam off a loader or something and I tell you what with a 2 1/2 inch ram i will never be able to bend it and that’s what i want --

I know this guy that had a 1 1/2 inch ram and bent it while splitting some wood well it split ok but wouldn’t retract too good

but back to the ram -- i do gain allot of return time since the 2 1/2 and the 3 inch are so close less volume to fill but i loose some return power never really considered it when i was sizing everything -- it takes force to push the fluid out i assumed that it would be such minimal that i didn’t even think about it well i started with a 1 hp and it split wood fine but stuttered on the return -- change to a 2 hp and much much better

the hoses that i have are 1/2 inch flex from BIG R kind of like farm and fleet but closer to me

if any questions feel free to email me i aint complete with it yet but i don’t mind showing it off at all ----- best thing i have done would do it again in a heart beat

you can contact me under this name at yahoo

 

ok i think i migh thave missed a little info

i bought this splitter home made from a guy for 200 bucks

it had a 5 hp motor and it was shot -- carbs were done for -- the piston rings were leaking through -- valves needed work also

the pump was a small lift pump from the same loader as the ram

the hoses were 1/4 inch hoses

i desided to redo the hole thing

i did keep the ram frame I-beam hydrolic resivor

i started by a 1 hp motor worked good but very slow becouse of the pump that was on it

so i got a pump here is the specs

GPM: 13.6
Shaft: 1/2in.
Inlet: 1in.
Outlet: 1/2in.
Minimum 6 HP or larger gas engine, direct drive only.
For use with open center hydraulic systems
1st Stage: 13.6 GPM@650 PSI
2nd Stage: 2.9 GPM@2500 PSI
Maximum Pressure: 3000 PSI
Bolt Circle: 2.83in.
4 holes spaced 2in. on center
Hole Diameter: .344in.
Shaft Size: 1/2in. x 1 1/2in.
Woodruff Key:' 1/8in.
Rotation: Clockwise

you see that it requres a 6hp gas motor well me i am an industral electrican so i do think i know little about this area -- ok 1 hp electric is equal to or close to 1.5 - 2 hp gas -- dont know why 1 hp should be 1 hp is equal to 746 Watts or 33,000 lb-ft per min(550 lb-ft per sec) so to make it easy i took the 6hp required and desided that i would need about 2-3 hp well all i had was a one so i put it in it did work but if i keept it there i twould have burned up so i knew that i would have to change it out and a 2 hp works great

but still ran slow and would drop down to hi pressure side early

i then changed out the hoses to 1/2 inch -people told me that would be a waist of time but for 30 bucks for 3 hoses "bite me" and it worked now i was ready to go

i started splitting wood i could split anything well almost had a log that had 5 knots on it ok i couldnt split that

and like i said earlier the return stuttered bad so i moved to a 2hp 1800 56c motor

still need to get an addaptor so i can couple the motor and the pump together

much better now nothing can stop me

the controls were new also just normal log splitter controls work great

next i would like to try 3600 rmp 2 hp if i find one cheap

not too many problems other than whats said above

it has a 24 inch opening with a 20 inch stroke of the cylinder so sometimes i have too double split -- ya know put a spacer in and repush the log

i also have a manual starter on it to protect the motor and i would like to change the wiring so i can use it at both 110 and 220 volts

if i have time i will try to figure out the total tonage of the system

i did figure it out earlier but dont remember i got the same numbers as Torque1st and i know it was higher so i did some looking i was wrong it is a 4 inch not a 3 so that changes it to about 18 TON litttle more system if my figuring is correct


well i will be around if you want more infor or even pics i can get some


thanks ken

 

"2nd Stage: 2.9 GPM@2500 PSI "

This is way overloading your motor but with intermittent duty it is obviously "working". Doubling the speed on the motor will probably not work, it will double the overload.

To properly drive 2.9 GPM @ 2500 PSI you need a 5HP motor. This means that even your present setup is severely overloading the motor. You are getting away with it and not burning up the motor because the overload is only lasting a few seconds. To drive 5.8 GPM @ 2500 PSI requires 10HP!

13.6 GPM @ 650 PSI requires 6HP but since you do not require 650PSI to move the ram the pump does not require full HP. At 13.6 GPM 2HP will produce 214PSI continuously.

This is the formula for HP to drive a pump assuming 85% efficiency which is close enuf for your pump:

HP = (PSI x GPM) / 1457

Of course as you have demonstrated you can "cheat" on this formula for intermittent duty cycles. Just don't cheat too far or your motor will burn up and /or stall. These HP figures are for REAL HP not the fake HP ratings that are sometimes used for consumer products.

Your 2HP motor is probably pulling ~40A in overload at 230VAC. Look up the locked rotor current for the motor. A 2HP motor will draw ~20A at 115VAC and under the overload would be hitting ~80A so it would blow breakers left and right. It probably would not even start on 115VAC with a pump on it without blowing the breaker. Your pump is not made to be belt or chain driven either. It does not have the proper bearings for an over hung load. That is why it says "direct drive only".

Have fun, feel free to ask questions. I design hydraulic systems for a living, I also teach Industrial Hydraulics courses.

 

i know that i am currently over loading the motor that is why i took precautions and put over loads on it -- you prob know then -- time over current and all that crap with duty cycles -- that i am able to max out my motor periodically and it will work with no damage to the motor and since the motor is only working during the time that wood is being pushed on and then cooled again while it is returning and just in free spin while i get more wood -- the percentage is very low -- guessing 10% load 90% no load -- i don’t want to have to add magnetic starter - so this works and works good - i still would do it again just this

 

Just don't try the faster motor, that would be asking for too much.