As I write this, it's 12:30am, I've been awake for roughly 19 hours and staring at a computer screen searching for any definitive answers for about the past hour and a half or so. So if there is a thread that covers this, my apologies, my sleepy brain probably couldn't think of the right wording on the 'search' function of the forum or Google.

So, 2005 F-150 with the 5.4 Triton with just over 135k on the clock. It's been ticking since the day I bought it about a year and a half ago. Lately, I've been dealing with all sorts of fun repairs... rear main seal, alternator, both front hubs, starter. I am flat-out tired of reacting to repair issues, dealing with not having a vehicle while I track down parts, find time to fix, etc. I just want the bloody thing to be reliable, hence why I've been digging around the internet. My budget only allows for so much to be thrown at this truck, so I want to make sure this is a good use of funds before committing to it.

1) The ticking sound... is this actually bad? It sounds like a dumb question, but I've seen a lot of people saying that they've been running their trucks for years and thousands of miles with the ticking sound, but haven't had a single issue. BUT, I've also seen the opposite argument that the ticking is bad because it's from parts coming into contact with each other that aren't supposed to. There doesn't seem to be any one absolutely definitive answer. If this is an issue that needs to be addressed, I'll jump on it and get it done. But I also have a lot of other work I intend to do to this truck to hopefully eliminate any future issues, so if it's not at all serious, I'll hold off on it until later. The sound is a tad irritating, but I only really hear it if I'm either out of the truck with the engine running, or if I'm stopped with the radio off and/or my windows down.

2) So if the ticking really is bad, obviously replacing the phasers and timing kit should be my solution. But from what I understand about the repair process, it doesn't sound like something I want to repeat. What do I need to do to make sure that when this is fixed, the ticking sound NEVER comes back again?

3) To clarify: the *best* solution to the infamous 5.4 ticking noise is a complete replacement of the cam phasers, timing chains, etc. There is no other option that would require less time or cost while still acting as an effective fix to the problem, correct?

This is a big procedure, so I just want to make sure I've got all my bases covered before committing the time and money to it. I've personally never done a repair on this scale, though I have a buddy who's a shadetree mechanic who's going to give me a hand on this. Even still, taking my truck this far apart is going to be a little daunting/nerve-wracking. If this was covered elsewhere, I do apologize. As I said, it's late and I wasn't finding the specific answers I needed, just a bunch of back & forth about the above. I just want to be sure that this is the right course of action before I commit to it.

 

First thing you should do is post up a video with the ticking noise. The phasers in these trucks get blamed for other noises like loud injectors, leaky exhaust manifolds, and noisy cam followers. Does your noise start with a cold engine, hot engine, etc? FYI, phasers generally become noisy on a hot engine and sound more like a loud thud, similar to a rod knock.

 

@Montana_Rig, your tireless (or tired) research accomplished more than you thought. You came up with the correct answer.

@EBC-150 is correct "The phasers in these trucks get blamed for" lots of symptoms that are caused by other things. Almost rightfully because they can result in a fairly wide range of symptoms. Sounds are difficult to describe, but I would add to @EBC-150's description the one that comes to my mind first is the "diesel engine sound". I actually had non-ford owners use that when asking me "What is wrong with your truck!! It sounds like a diesel".


But from the description you gave - if you have not had a DTC related to Cam Timing yet, I'm willing to _BET_ your 'tick' is coming from the valve train (Very seldom are injectors noisy enough to be objectionable) . Either a Roller/Follower that has worn roller bearings in the roller/follower, or a Lash Adjuster that is sticky / stuck / or leaks down under sagging oil pressure at hot idle.

As @EBC-150 suggests, the Phasers produce a 'lower' more 'throaty' or deeper knock very similar to a rod knock. (However a rod knock will be much more noticeable at elevated RPMs under NO load. The Phaser will produce its knock at absolute IDLE and disappear with slightest elevated RPMs.


You also did not mention "marbles in a coffee can" sound like characteristic of broken guides or chains contacting the inside of the timing cover.


Also - the (over-advanced, over-retarded) timing codes (ie like P0012 or P0022) are 'triggered' in the PCM by the cams being a mere 5 degrees from where they SHOULD be for more than 5 seconds. THAT is pretty damn narrow. Once triggered, the check engine light will stay on for two drive cycles before it will go out on its own, IF the condition has not re-occurred. Same goes for the cam/crank sync codes P0344 - P0345. You did not mention any DTC's. And while guides and phaser problems can occur at 135k, with good maintenance, many reach 175 to 200k before having to replace chains / guides / phasers.


Hope your can do the same. Meanwhile - you can - very inexpensively - remove valve covers and check ALL lifters for any slack. If you undertake this, check back for best ways to accomplish it.

 

Here's a video of the noise I'm currently hearing. This doesn't happen until after the truck has been running for about 5-ish minutes and started to warm up. I can also feel a slight shudder when the truck has been running for a while and I'm parked with the truck idling at low RPM's. Now, I don't know if this is at all related, but if the problem lies elsewhere this might be a symptom: When I'm driving, occasionally when I accelerate gradually (like going from 45 to 55mph speed zones) I'll hear a rattling ticking sound coming from the passenger side. The instant I take my foot off the gas, it stops. Again, I don't know if that's at all related to anything above, but if it helps with making sure I make the right diagnosis, I'd be remiss not to mention it.

If I don't have to fix the phasers, GREAT!!! -But I need to figure things out soon, because I'm about to order the parts so they'll arrive in time to do a full fix next weekend. I watched a Youtube video by Fordtechmakaloco where he does a phaser replacement, and the engine he was working on sounded similar to mine, which is why I decided on doing the procedure.

Here's a video of my truck at idle after having been warmed up/driven for about 20 minutes.

 

Thanks for the video. By the sound, I would say a complete timing rebuild is in store, including phasers. I'm sure Torqued will chime in and concur.

 

My thoughts on the phasers that ultimately caused engine replacement at 117,000 miles on my truck 15,000 miles after a Dorman timing rebuild.

1. Check the crank thrust. If it's out of spec, you'll need an engine.

2. Pull a cam cap on the passenger side head. If the bearing surface is wiped,
you'll need an reman engine.

3. Pull the timing cover and replace the oil pump. The pumps really seem to
wear on these engines. Melling M360 is supposed to be the best
replacement, and can be installed without removing the oil pan

4. You can update/improve the tensioners by installing the 2v cast steel
ratcheting style tensioners and do away with the leak prone crappy plastic
oil pressure operated tensioners. 2V tensioners do not require any sealant.

5. The original style Dorman phasers have had enough problems I'd avoid
them. Supposedly they have a newer improved design. I'd use the latest
version of Ford tensioner with the heavy spring and solid locking pin.

 

I like the way @EBC-150 stated it - a timing rebuild is in store, _including phasers_.


Actually I do not hear the 'labor knock' or 'diesel knock' characteristic of the sound made by Phaser vanes slapping the end of Phaser chambers or slack in the internal spring loaded locking pin.


I believe what I do hear is a combination of a couple of loose roller/followers or lash adjusters that are not keeping the slack out of roller/cam/valve stem (especially on Bank2), and I think I hear cam chains that are loose from ware/stretch, or tensioners not doing their job.


Since fixing those things require removing front cover, I would not go that far without replacing the Phasers as well.

 

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I certainly can't claim the title of Expert and realize opinions are common place - everybody has some. But my opinion differs dramatically with much of the above.
You certainly do not need a new engine. While a prudent part of a timing job to check end play in the crankshaft. If excessive, thrust bearings can be (and should be) replaced without removing engine. As for cams - I am in favor of lifting them to remove / check / replace defective rollers and/or lash adjusters. IF in the unlikely event a cam journal is shot, it would necessitate replacing a head - not the entire engine.


I am in agreement with using the cast iron tensioners (although I understand the reason ford moved away from them: Engines subjected to frequent high rpm operation, ie police fleets, showed additional front journal ware and chain/guide ware from higher tension kept on the chains by the ratchet action). You decide. Me, I personally went with the cast iron ones because I like the chains tensioned on startup before the oil pressure builds.


And going in that far - I am in favor of changing the oil pump. Melling has a couple of good selections that will increase idle oil pressure - which helps phaser operation. //// Doing so without removing oil pan????//// I do not know about that, but I would not recommend it. BROKEN GUIDE PIECES MUST be removed from the pan / pickup screen or subsequent problems are almost certainly guaranteed.

 

Thanks for all the info, guys. I really appreciate all your input, and it's definitely helped me to feel a bit more comfortable just knowing what I have ahead of me.

I'm about to place my order with Rock Auto for all my parts, I've got the full Cloyes timing set (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...962844&jsn=261) which includes Crankshaft Sprocket, Timing Chain(2), Chain Tensioner(2), Tensioner Guide(2), Chain Guide(2);

Fel-Pro crankshaft seal (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...sn=262&jsn=262)

and 2 Dorman cam phasers (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...388248&jsn=263)

I can look into adding an oil pump into my order, but aside from that, is there anything else excluding tools that I need to include before I purchase? I need to order pretty much right away if I'm going to have any chance of doing this next weekend.

Thanks again, you guys rock!

 

It's your coin, but IMO you absolutely do not want dorman phasers. They are prone to failure in short order. The orientation pin can sheer, the vains can break, the vain housings can also break. Do your research on this one, you won't regret it. Also, if you'd like the part no's to the metal, ratcheting tensioners, let me know.

 

Good to know, I guess the only other options I've found are either the Ford branded one (although it's twice the cost of the Dorman ones) or some 3rd party options that cost less but have little to no feedback on quality, like CNS Engineparts, etc. This part alone has more than doubled my initial repair cost -But then again, I'd very much rather this be a one time repair, so if that's what it takes to keep this truck running for many years to come, I guess that's what I'll have to do.

If you have those part numbers, I'd be glad to have them... Is the Cloyes kit no good, or is it just that particular part? The description doesn't really mention what the part composition is, even on the Ford OEM replacement kit.

From the sound of it, I need to completely dump the contents of my cart and start over, save for maybe the Fel-Pro seal. I'm open to any part recommendations, though I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'm going to need to start paying extra for shipping to guarantee delivery in time for the weekend. (this is a pretty big job, so I'm probably stressing myself a bit here)

 

This Cloyes kit has the metal tensioners: ,but doesn't include the lower gear.

F6AZ-6L266-CA and F6AZ-6L266-DA are the Ford part No.'s

Here are the Melling metal tensioners: More Information for MELLING BT402
More Information for MELLING BT403


A lot of people have had good luck with the Standard Motor Products phasers: More Information for STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS S21001

No one has had luck with Dorman. It literally is a nightmare for those who buy them.

 

Thanks! I've updated my order to the above recommendations, I was able to find that Cloyes kit on Rock Auto, as well as the lower gear for only a bit more than the Cloyes kit I originally had listed. If the Standard Motor phasers are good, I'll go with them because they're about $100 less than the Ford option per piece. I want good quality, but my budget does have a ceiling for everything I want to do to get top reliability & performance out of my truck. I've also added the Melling M360 oil pump to my order as well.

Another question, I've seen a few recommendations to replace the VCT solenoid elsewhere, though nobody has directly suggested I do so here. Is that something I should be doing as well, or are the existing ones likely to still be performing properly?

 

If you haven't had a timing oriented DTC you probably can get away with reusing your VCTs - subject to close inspection. Especially since they can be replaced easily on that '05 if any symptoms want to linger. I would rather see you be prepared to replace any roller/followers that have play in the roller or show signs of wear and any lash adjuster that is stuck in the head or that you can squeeze down. Also any electrical connectors that have broken clips (COP & Injectors).


I am uneasy about aftermarket phasers - almost to the point of recommending just staying with originals since a new oil pump and tensioners are going in. Many times they are unnecessarily replaced because other components have failed. But I hate to see you go backwards in (my perceived) phaser quality.

A few miscellaneous parts that haven't been mentioned are:
o- front seal (may be included in the Felpro gasket set)
o- VCT Solenoid Body gaskets. (I recommend removing VCT Valve bodys and cleaning all passageways / screens real well)
o- a 'TTY' crankshaft bolt (original isn't supposed to be reused)
o- a new set of plugs with Boots (NOT COPs)
o- pan gasket (should be removed to ck lower end and clean pickup screen)
o- VCT seals (conditional if you can get them locally - likely to be damaged removing VCs)


I have a full Ford Factory Service Manual for 04-06 F150 in PDF format. If you PM me an email address I will get you a copy.

 

My friend's mechanic buddy heard what we were doing this coming weekend and his recommendation was to just do a phaser lock-out. He's seen/worked on several 5.4 Tritons and his overall feeling was that it's the safest option to prevent any future phaser issues.

From what I understand, the phaser lock-out isn't the solution to this issue, but I figured I'd ask if I should consider doing that as well. I know about the high end HP loss, but I rarely have my truck up that high, and I'm planning on doing some additional modifications that should hopefully offset any of that.

My other question is, if the factory phasers are still good, would doing a lock-out after replacing everything else still be an effective fix with keeping the original phasers, or would they still be prone to failure putting me back into a similar issue? I'm going to order everything to do the repair, but if the original phasers are good and the lock-out kit will work just fine using them, I'd return the replacement phasers and at least get a bit of my money back in my pocket.