quote: Gee we have opened up a big ole can of worms here!!! Because you hit the nail on the head. alot more people need to complain about this. I understand Ford is happy with their better idea. But its like Seinfeld it sucks. My theory for incresed car and truck sales. 1 More drivers on the road 2 Emissions laws 3 Easier financing you can get a loan with poor credit. 10 - 15 years ago you couldnt walk up to the dealer with 1500 bucks drive out in a new car.

 

Other than the new trucks can come with the modular, how doe sit help to have poor credit? We are talking pushrod versus OHC in the modern truck.

I understand you're saying the automakers are making more money now because of the three reasons you stated, no argument there. Just how is it relating to the design of the engine? Are you stating that Ford, in part, is baseing the success of the modular design on the sales figures? HMMMM, if so, that may be a very good point. We all have to drive in our modern society, and people have the mind set that newer means better.

Even after my previous comments in this post, I am still undecided on the advantages of one design over another. I seem to be one of the people stuck in the practicality versus society. The emissions are lower, the design is made by modern methods, it can be very complex (therefore giving you a tech rush), and is computer controlled (and getting more so everyday-yet another techno attitude), so these are the points of having a modern OHC design. The ease of maintenance, (in some cases) lack of computer control, and strength of material all seem prevalent push rod points. Any of these points can be interchanged, it's the society factor that allows OHC's to be the "favorite." Who knows, maybe (if we still have fossil fuels/ internal cobustion) in 50 years the push rod will be society's favorite.

-Kerry

 

I am also disapponited with the modular engines. I very much want to get a newer F-150 and Expy but I am afarid to. I have driven some 5.4s and like the way they run, and the torque, which is more important to me than HP. Now for the problem. I have owned more than 40 Fords since 1971 and have never had a head gasket failure, spark plug blowout, or anything else that I couldn't fix myself, as I consider myself a pretty good mechanic.
The exceptions to this statement are as follows. 1986 tarus, trans. problems, 1994 mercury sable, 3.8, 3 new engines, needed a 4th when I said bye to Ford and bought my wife a Hundai SantaFe, (so far very good car, excellent service). I have owned my 87 F-150 over 10 years, and except for oil, tires, and one tune-up, I have spent less than $400.00 in maintenance on it, the same goes for my 92 Aerostar van with a 3.0. I really want a nice, plush, quiet new truck, but no-one, I mean NO-ONE builds anything I can trust. Please do away with so much of the Hi Tech stuff and build me a vehicle that will give me the service of my old ones, and I, along with millions of others will beat the dealership doors down to buy them.
I know this is long, but I just needed to say that.

 

The Taurus was a car that needed a few reliability upgrades, if you ask me... front-wheel drive, I stay away from. "front-wheel drive" = "CHEAP". Besides the stability in bad weather of a front-wheel drive car, the only reason they are making them is because they are CHEAP.

I've had two MN12's, a '96 T-bird 4.6L and a '97 Cougar 30th anniv 4.6L. Both have been FABULOUS in terms of maintenance. Guess what? Rear-wheel drive. And, I did my homework before I bought either.

Got a '01 V10 F250 SD. Guess what? Flawless... the modular motor has been GREAT for me... that makes THREE new modulars in the last 9 years. NO problems related to the motor... NONE!

You haven't owned a single modular motor. And, by modular, I mean 4.6L, 5.4L or 6.8L V10.

Why would you sit hear crying about how bad modulars are, when you haven't even owned one?

Because you hear 20-30, or maybe 50 UNIQUE complaints here on FTE?

Do you understand how big the market is in Ford modulars? That to hear only that many complaints here, that you are talking about < .1% of all total manufactured?

come on... as for the "high-tech stuff" - give me a break. My modulars are simpler than anything made in the last 20 years. You have an '87 F150. I've worked on a few Ford '80's trucks/vans. Look under the hood and tell me how many vacuum hoses you have. All three of my modular vehicles have the simplest vacuum schematic I have seen in the last 20 years. The multi-port fuel injection is so simple (and reliable) as to be laughable.

Try a modular. Keep it until the warranty is up, and then decide. Lease one and give it back at the end, no questions asked. Then, come back here, and say you are disappointed with a modular.

Sorry to be so blunt.

By the way, if you want a quiet, plush new truck, mine creaks, rattles and everything else inbetween

ak - even worse, I get 16MPG with my V10.

 

You made alot of good points. I have rebuilt alot of pushrod V-8's and 2 modulars. Maybe I don't have enough experience yet, but I think the mods are harder to take apart, rebuild, and re-assemble. So far, it seems the internal parts are more expensive.

You get 16mpg on a V-10! Wow, be happy. The best I've done is 12mpg and it gets under 10 when towing. I averaged 15mpg on my old F150 4.6. I averaged 15mpg on my old F150 5.0. The pushrod motor got better mpg when towing than the 4.6 (both had 3:55 gears in the 8.8).

 

That was a little joke, I'm VERY happy I get 16MPG.

On a long trip, over 200 miles, most of it 75MPH+, I get over 16MPG. If I slow down to 70, it goes DOWN to 15. Some other people have reported the same thing in relation to speed. Stop-and-go, with my lead foot, I get 7MPG!

One-use bolts and other things make the modulars a little trickier, but I agree, some of the internals are pretty pricey, it seems...

 

I'm not saying that there are not many major improvements in todays engines. Anyone who has ever worked on the carb. engines of the 70's and early 80's will tell you that these were dark days for lots of engines. What I am saying is that there is too much over-engineering of products that were better off left alone.

There must always be change, but some changes are not always for the better.

There is no excuse for heads to spit plugs, blow gaskets, pistons to slap, or timing tensioners to break for more than one production year, except for $$$.

I have spent lots of time in the past modifying or making parts to cure a problem that the so-called engineers should have found right away.

I will probably break down and buy a modular because I really want an Expy, and just hope that I am wrong and you are right about the reliability.

If I can get the service of my 4.9 or 3.0 in a modular I will sing it's praises all over this board.

 

High production numbers may be a good excuse....considering the hundreds of thousands of 5.4's and 4.6's made and nobody is perfect. Nobody here could make anything a million times or so and not have a few go bad. And Ford like most other manufactuers relies on other companies to get their parts from. 5.4 is a great motor...I'd take one over any 351....and I've had both. The whole pushrod vs. OHC debate is getting old to....both have advantages and disadvantages....overall the OHC design is better for most. Ford is following a very simple process when it wanted more flow from the F-150's heads...just added another valve. 3 smaller valves flow better than 2 larger ones, 4 valves flow better than 3, and 5 flow better than 4...easy enough?

 

My family owns over 25 Fords currently and not one person has been inspired by the Triton V8s. My personal car has about 109K on the clock and is on its THIRD 4.6 engine. Two of my brothers had 5.4s in their F250s (one light duty on super duty). Both had blown head gaskets by 20K. The brother with the light duty 250 kept it after the Ford dealer assured him that now that the gaskets had been replaced he wouldn't see the problem again, he did at about 60K. The other got rid of his Super duty immediately after the repair. Those are the only Triton V8s we have owned, basicly 0 for 3, doesn't exactly inspire one to go out and drop $25,000 to $30,000 on another vehicle equipped with one.

Until the Triton engine I don't recall ever changing a head gasket much less replacing an engine in over 30 years - and that includes 3 or 4 Taurus with 3.8Ls. Ford went out and spent a huge amount of money to replace three push rod engines with three OV engines and never gained a thing, still somewhat low on power, and gas thirsty. The one thing they did give up was a reputation for reliability and cheap parts.

The big surprise has been the V10, two Super Duties have well over 100,000 tough miles and one Excursion has idled up to 60,000, only maintenance had been oil and Filter changes. Now that Ford has successfully screwed up their deisel engine the V10 might be the only way to go when their 7.3s are ready to be replaced, if they decide to stick to with Ford.

 

Funny, I've heard plenty of people blowing head gaskets on the 3.8's, and I've got two 4.6L's and a friend has another, never a problem.

 

Well I went to try out an Expy today and give it a chance. It was an '01 5.4 with 33000 miles. It had been sitting for a few weeks.

The salesman started it up and let it idle. As he did I stood next to the door and I could hear the timing tensioner rattle for appx. 10 sec. until the oil pressure was up. With an oil pressure tensioner I would consider this normal sound, although that is not the best design to keep chains tight. What I didn't care for was the double tap of the piston slapping around for about 45 seconds.

Needless to say I left it sitting there and am now leaning toward an Explorer, maybe, after I do some more research on the 4.0 V-6. I also am not a fan of an all aluminum engine. Anyone who remembers the great Cadilliac 4100 V-8 will know why. Maybe these won't eat main bearings like the Caddies did.

Keep it coming. I like this debate.

 

Why not go all out get a Powerstoke?

 

"Funny, I've heard plenty of people blowing head gaskets on the 3.8's, and I've got two 4.6L's and a friend has another, never a problem."

The 5.4 is well know (at least in NE Kansas) for its ability to blow head gaskets -especially the earlier versions. The Foster Ford dealership says they replaced the head gaskets on almost every 5.4 equipped F250 they sold through 2001. That is why my brother got rid of his SD 250, when he went in for repair they had 9 others waiting their turn in the shop.

The 4.6 problems I had - first engine had a "sand spot" in the block that allowed antifreeze into the oil - took the dealer over 28K to figure out why it was always low on coolant. Second engine never would run "right" missed, knocked, engine light on nonstop, woud quit and refuse to start after driving over 20 miles. Put about 900 miles on it - mostly driving to the shop to try and get the dealer to repair it. Eventually they replaced it also - after 4 months of listening to me b**** and moan about it. Nothing like making payments on a car that won't run. Eventually they claim they found the problem to be the spark plug holes where not tapped all the way down and the plugs where not seated properly in the head (sounded like BS to me but all I know is it wouldn't run). At the time I believe Ford claimed all replacement engines where run 3(?) hours before shipment, found that hard to believe when that POS wouldn't run 20 minutes. Current engine runs OK, low on power, fair on gas, certainly isn't a major improvement over my mother's old 89 Crown Vic that had a FI 302 in either department.

3.8s and 4.2s are renown the world over for blown head gaskets but repairing one of those is much cheaper then doing so on a Triton, and it tends to "stay" fixed. I put over 150K on a '93 Sable with a 3.8 and never had that problem or any other major one beside the silently recalled electronic ignition module, not bad for a "cheap" car - makes my current Grand Marquis look pretty bad.

 

Best engine IMHO for durability Ford had out besides the 300 I6 is the 2.9L they put in Rangers and Bronco IIs. I put 130K on my little 91 Ranger and only kept the fluids fresh. Sold it to my nephew who ran the H*** out of it through high school and college with the barest of normal maintenance. He sold it upon graduation to his younger brother with over 200K on the clock and it still burns less then a quart an oil change. Only major problem it ever had was the input bearing the the trannie going out. No expensive coil packs or sensors to replace, just change the plugs and wires every 100K and go.

 

Yeah, I kinda skipped over the 5.4L introduction, lucky me, I guess !

Isn't that Ranger really a Mazda? Keep the discussion to Ford's please ... (just kidding)...

I wonder how they could have screwed up something enough in the 5.4's - it's the same bore and head pattern as the 4.6l, isn't it? They didn't take into account the extra cylinder pressure?

When you say they blow head gaskets, do you have any idea HOW they blow? Water in the oil, water in the exhaust, oil in the water, cylinder-to-cylinder, what?