400 piston options
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 146
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400 piston options
Tim is out of pistons until March and that is a bit too long for my project. Is there another source that I should look at?
I'm not looking for high performance, just something that will last until the next rebuild. All I plan on doing is bringing the timing to 0 on the stock cam. I see them from $8 to $80 and have no idea how much of a drawback there is to the less expensive options.
I'm not looking for high performance, just something that will last until the next rebuild. All I plan on doing is bringing the timing to 0 on the stock cam. I see them from $8 to $80 and have no idea how much of a drawback there is to the less expensive options.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 146
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Okay, are the factory pistons really that bad? I will probably go with Tim's but they are spendy for someone just looking to convert a motor. Not much less than buying a complete used 400 motor.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 3
From: In the woods of Oregon
Yes, stock piston sit too far down in the bore to produce any squish. Without squish to produce quench, you have to lower the comp ratio and run it rich to prevent detonation. This lack of quench is the reason most people in years past have said the 400 is a boat anchor and a dog. if you run Tim's pistons you will be happy and presently surprised, if you don't, your going to be unhappy in the end. I have used both and the difference is night and day when it comes to timing and fuel. I think others here would agree with me.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,003
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From: chicago burbs
a stock 400 with a 16cc dish piston sitting .065" down in the hole makes 8:1 CR
the same engine running Tim's .030" pistons with a 3cc relief makes just over 10:1,
perfect for a mild performance cam and making decent power/economy
common rebuilder pistons will likely increase the deck clearance distance and the dish volume reducing CR to under 8:1
the same engine running Tim's .030" pistons with a 3cc relief makes just over 10:1,
perfect for a mild performance cam and making decent power/economy
common rebuilder pistons will likely increase the deck clearance distance and the dish volume reducing CR to under 8:1
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 6
From: Cranbrook, Ont., Canada
I used 351C flat tops. Just bushed the small end of the con rod. I ended up with 9:3 .1 compression. works for me.
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Mountain Pass
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That's an interesting option. Do you have to machine the rods or are there bushings that will fit OD/ID? Do you have to mess with deck height?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 3
From: In the woods of Oregon
That doesn't make sense, a flat top down in the bore enough NOT to create too much compression is too far in the bore to get quench. You need a dish or a step piston to get the piston close enough to the head to produce quench, yet retain a reasonable compression.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...df3709d33a.jpg
Here is a picture of a flat top and Tims piston with a step. If the step was removed both pistons would be almost even. The step is like .050 tall. A standard 351C piston has a compression height of 1.67, tims pistons 1.71. that's forty thou. I'm starting to see a trend here. This is a issue because a lot of people have found you need quench or these engines like to rattle. The whole reason tims pistons where created.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...df3709d33a.jpg
Here is a picture of a flat top and Tims piston with a step. If the step was removed both pistons would be almost even. The step is like .050 tall. A standard 351C piston has a compression height of 1.67, tims pistons 1.71. that's forty thou. I'm starting to see a trend here. This is a issue because a lot of people have found you need quench or these engines like to rattle. The whole reason tims pistons where created.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: chicago burbs
i don't believe that quench disappears beyond .040" or whatever the minimum clearance distance is, there's a flat pad of metal closing off the sides of the chamber, the piston coming up will cause turbulence
the Kostecki's of Australia and i think Tim Meyer has also found that a single quench pad is more effective than the 2 that the heads are cast with. unfortunately the Kostecki Engine Centre web page has been wiped, they had some very detailed pics & text. they've moved on to different stuff but i guess they want to keep their secrets
if the engine rattles it's running too much DCR, it's not getting fed right or both
the Kostecki's of Australia and i think Tim Meyer has also found that a single quench pad is more effective than the 2 that the heads are cast with. unfortunately the Kostecki Engine Centre web page has been wiped, they had some very detailed pics & text. they've moved on to different stuff but i guess they want to keep their secrets
if the engine rattles it's running too much DCR, it's not getting fed right or both
Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 242
Likes: 17
From: OH
I would (and have) waited for the TMeyer pistons, its worth it as they are stronger and ive also been told the hypereutectics will take a bit more beating than the stock slugs (on engine #5 after 4 years) they dont really rattle that I've noticed with both 351 and 400 pistons but theyre both sensetive to nitrous and poor gas. Its only about $600 for custom pistons if you wanna go that far though :-P
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 146
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Yeah, going to wait for Tim's. Getting my 400 block ready for it. Doing bearings and gaskets. Honing the cylinders. Got a Edelbrock 2171 intake and looking at 650 cfm carb.
Other than running higher octane gas is there anything else necessary to compensate for the increased compression?
Other than running higher octane gas is there anything else necessary to compensate for the increased compression?