Hello,

Let me start by saying that I’ve scoured the internet, forums, called Cloyes and had a couple Ford mechanic friends listen to this truck and still have no conclusive answer. The truck is a 2010 F150 with the 3V 4.6 V8 95k miles. I originally decided to change the timing tensioners because the passenger side would make the dreaded 3-5 second tick on the passenger side upon startup, which I suspected was from leak-down caused by a torn tensioner seal. I pulled it apart and found exactly what I had suspected, the seal on the passenger side tensioner was ripped. I decided to replace both tensioners and chains, the guides all checked out with no cracks and the cam phasers made no noise or threw any codes prior so I left them alone as well.

After putting it back together, I started it up and it ran just fine for about 50 miles worth of driving (at least I think, a noisy idler pulley may have masked it some). I mainly noticed it after replacing the grooved idler pulley, however the noise is loud enough that I think it would have been noticed regardless. The original noise at startup on passenger side had gone away though. This is when I started my research on forums and figured I’d rule-out simple things. I drained the 5w20 synthetic oil and FRAM filter I had put in as a “break in” for first couple thousand miles and replaced with Mobil1 10w30 synthetic and a Ford FL820S filter crossing my fingers that it was just a dud filter. However, this made no significant difference.

It is quiet upon startup until oil starts to warm up, then you can slightly hear it during idle. The noise is most noticeable when revving it up, increasing noise with increased RPM’s. I then started my scouring of forums and double-checked everything in the book without tearing it down. Oil pressure is good (40 psi range), pulled valve cover off driver’s side and checked to make sure chain is tight and no guides were broken/moving), took accessory belt off to rule out any possible idlers/power steering pump, etc. causing the noise.

When putting a big screwdriver on the front cover right at where the driver’s timing chain tensioner is, I can definitely tell that is the source (location) of the ticking noise that intensifies with increased RPM’s.

I called Cloyes and was told that this is kind of “unheard of” symptoms, but does sound like possibly a bad tensioner(too large of cylinder-housing tolerance/seal blown out already). I was also told that the Cloyes tensioners had been made by a supplier that had some quality issues. Supposedly they now have their own tooling (with parts that have 3 squares in front face of tensioner) and these consistently provide better test results than the OEM ones that BorgWarner made for Ford. One thing I can note is that the ones I put on this engine did not have the 3 squares.

So…I will be finding a new set of tensioners with 3 squares and pulling the front cover off and swapping them out over Christmas-New years.

In the meantime, I’m curious if anyone else has come across this unique situation?

Thanks,
David

 

just a question ... was that 40psi at hot idle?


with respect to the phasers and tensioners, anything above 20psi hot idle is supposed to be OK.

 

Yes, that's at hot idle.

 

Im working on my 04 F150 5.4L 3V. I followed the 4 part video series by FordTechMakuloco, posted above (and used my Hayes Manual to double check myself) to install new Cam Phasers, chains, guides, and tensioners. All parts were Ford. I just finished timing the engine and according to the Hayes manual, the last step before getting the RTV out and installing the front cover is to rotate the crankshaft with a socket for a few revolutions, making sure there is no interference. There is no interference, but I am hearing a clicking / ticking noise coming from my brand new Cam Phaser Sprockets. Upon closer inspection, there is also a slight movement when the tick occurs. The movement is backwards to the direction of rotation, and the chain will go slack slightly. I thought that these phasers were supposed to be locked, unless there is enough oil pressure to unlock the pin inside them and allow the variable timing to take effect. So I am really wondering if these new Ford phasers are faulty / defective. I don't want to put everything back together unless I know forsure if this behavior is normal or not!

The same behavior can be seen in another video by FordTechMakuloco, called "Ford 5.4L 3v Timing Kit Choices: This is Why You NEVER Want to Use Aftermarket Camshaft Phasers!" To see this clicking, look around 4:00 minute mark.
My new Ford phasers are making the same noise! Are they defective? I know that I don't want to put the truck back together and then have the phaser come apart, that could cause serious engine damage!

Thanks for any insight...

 

Hello,

From the few that I have done prior and after this original post of mine, I have seeing what you are talking about in a good sense and bad.

When you rotate the crank prior to the tensioners building pressure, you will definitely see a little bit of movement as the cam lobes are "popping" into 2-3 of what I call resting positions.

On the other hand, a few months back I helped a friend who opted to use a cheap eBay phaser and chain set. we rolled it over a few times and everything seemed to be relatively normal with the slight movement described above. However, we fired it up and it ran great for about 5 minutes idling, once we did a little tip in on the throttle it started rap tap tapping like a motor that had thrown a rod.

After a LOT I've had scratching and cranking the motor over about 100 times, all of the timing marks lined up perfectly. But, there was a very significant difference in compression PSI in the drivers bank.

That is what brought me to the video you shared from the 5.4 pro . We saw the exact situation where the phaser was actually slipping/clicking backwards on the center portion.

Upon removing the phasers, we discovered that the center locating pin that actually sheared off and ruined one of the camshafts.

Long story short, he ponied up the money and got Ford phasers and the truck ran just fine.

I know it doesn't exactly answer your question, but if you are not seeing the exact situation in his video I wouldn't be too concerned.

David

 

Thanks for your reply. The problem is that I AM seeing the exact problem shown in the video above, where the cam phasers are clicking about once per revolution. I don't think the sound is coming from the valves and/or rocker rollers as you mentioned, but it might be possible. I can place my hand on the phaser as I am turning the crank and feel the click within it, so I'm fairly confident the sound is coming from within the cam phaser.

I have not fired the engine up yet. I don't want to do that until I am confident that this phaser is good.
Do you think this clicking is proof of a bad part?

 

Man oh man, sounds like an interesting time for sure. lol one thing I’ve learned about a 3V, with the exception of the oil pump I won’t install anything timing related that isn’t a Ford OEM part. I’ve heard many stories similar to yours and aftermarket parts are generally the issue. The quality of the aftermarket on Ford VCT components is sub standard to say the least. Keep me posted on how you make out with this. Or if I can lend a hand in any way. Not versed on a 4.6, but I’ve dabbled in a couple 5.4’s to date.