I am confused, are you talking about 69# penalty because of the spare?

 

[QUOTE=191124x7;16784796]Also the fact that the 64# moon roof costs you 96# of fifth wheel capacity. QUOTE]

I don't understand. How does a 64# moon roof cost you 96# of Fifth Wheel capacity? I thought that the Fifth Wheel pin weight or Bumper Pull tongue weight was only limited by the payload of the truck. Or does the Ultimate package that includes the dual moon roof mandate a certain tire rim that lowers your GVWR?

 

[QUOTE=dlauffenburger;16785591]With the fifth wheel, more of the trailer weight ends up burdening the truck. While YMMV, in round numbers let's say you have a 1,000lb trailer that is conventional bumper pull.

- You would want to load your trailer in such a way that about 10% of that weight is on the ball; and that means you've just used about 100lb of cargo capacity.

Now take a fifth wheel trailer that also weighs 1,000lb. With this configuration, approximately 150lb will be placed on your fifth wheel hitch and take up 150lb of your cargo capacity.

In another thread, I went through a detailed exercise of trying to figure out what I could tow (both safely and legally) and below is what I came up with.

Note on:

Line 12: I'm limited by combined weight of truck and trailer
Line 13: I'm limited by cargo capacity
Line 25: I'm limited by cargo capacity
Line 26: I'm limited by cargo capacity -- ** AND ** at only 8,000lbs of fifth wheel due to the .15 x trailer weight of the fifth wheel -- so right here is the most striking example of how a 64lb window can cost you 96lb of fifth wheel capability. In fact, it's actually much worse. That 64lb window limits 96lb of what is in the bed of your truck. It limits the total weight of your trailer by MUCH more than that as can be illustrated with my numbers on line 26 below.

Because on line 26, you see that by consuming 500lb of cargo with my wife and camping equipment I lose about FOUR THOUSAND pounds of fifth wheel trailer capacity! I'm not that great with math, but I assume if 500lb of cargo costs me 4,000 pounds of trailer, then the moon roof at about 100lb of cargo costs about 800 pounds of trailer?

 

Actually now the rule of thumb for Bumper pulls trailers is closer to 15% but recommended anywhere between 10 and 15%

 

No. They call out 65lbs. of inflation instead of the max 80.
Artificially lowering the payload capacity.

 

[QUOTE=191124x7;16785612][QUOTE=dlauffenburger;16785591]


Note on:

Line 12: I'm limited by combined weight of truck and trailer
Line 13: I'm limited by cargo capacity
Line 25: I'm limited by cargo capacity
Line 26: I'm limited by cargo capacity -- ** AND ** at only 8,000lbs of fifth wheel due to the .15 x trailer weight of the fifth wheel -- so right here is the most striking example of how a 64lb window can cost you 96lb of fifth wheel capability. In fact, it's actually much worse. That 64lb window limits 96lb of what is in the bed of your truck. It limits the total weight of your trailer by MUCH more than that as can be illustrated with my numbers on line 26 below.

Because on line 26, you see that by consuming 500lb of cargo with my wife and camping equipment I lose about FOUR THOUSAND pounds of fifth wheel trailer capacity! I'm not that great with math, but I assume if 500lb of cargo costs me 4,000 pounds of trailer, then the moon roof at about 100lb of cargo costs about 800 pounds of trailer? QUOTE]

Thanks for the explanation of your numbers, not sure I completely understand the math though. So the 96# is what your max trailer weight (not pin weight) is reduce by due to the 64# reduction in truck payload.

 

Having read this several times I think you have it backwards. Dropping 15 pounds from each tire would actually give you 60 pounds greater payload capacity, and then if you let the spare down to say, 40, you would gain another 25 pounds capacity!

 

Thanks for this clarification. I did more digging and see that (and in addition) some sites are even suggesting that goosenecks have 25% of their weight on the ball.

It goes to show you that buying a truck for towing is no joke, and to the original point of this thread -- very important to determine before you sign.

Increasing the recommendation for the bumper pull is confusing to me, however. As I understand it, the major problem with weight on the bumper is when braking the tongue moves towards the pavement (taking weight off the front wheels/axle of the truck) -- which lessens braking and steering capability of the truck. Maybe they just figured out the extra 5% increases stability without making the above worse?

 

Well, no, actually. I'm sorry I'm not explaining it better. It's all very confusing to me, too. I keep hoping somebody will jump in and tell me my maximum towing capacity numbers are wrong (too low!) but nobody does. If anything they are still too high as pointed out by wb6anp.

I guess to say it most clearly:


Regarding the F250 -- there is not a lot of margin for cargo (well, in the nice trims anyway). Be aware that every pound of 'stuff' that you add to your truck reduces your ability to haul because the overall total can't exceed 10,000lb on nearly all of them.

And that same cargo restriction is the #1 limiting factor in your ability to tow.

And that cargo restriction ends up costing you 10 pounds of conventional (bumper pull) trailer for every 1 pound less cargo (due to the fact that a minimum of 10% of the trailer weight needs to push down on the bumper hitch.)

And that cargo restriction ends up costing you 15 pounds of fifth wheel trailer for every 1 pound less cargo (due to the fact that a minimum of 15% of the trailer weight needs to push down on the rear axle).

So all of this to say that when you look at these numbers, I'm hoping you can benefit from my mistakes and if cargo capacity is important to you, just spend the extra (insignificant at these prices) dollars and get an F350 -- unless the real numbers people here think your truck will haul will work for you.

 

Using that rational, My pedal bike tires would weigh 80lbs. each!
When you reduce the pressure, you reduce the tire's load capacity.

 

I'm sure you're being sarcastic, but air pressure does not translate into weight. There is *some* weight added with increased pressure, but it is tiny.

 

You know me better than that by now. Anyway, have to find some way to have some fun.

 

[QUOTE=191124x7;16785612]You guys are getting all hung up on a sticker. Let the sticker thing go and tow your trailers. You'll be much happier just enjoying how tough the truck is towing your heavy oversized trailer if you leave the stick out of it. Or if it makes you feel better, order up a sticker with the numbers you want on it.

 

Or take the sticker off and throw it away.

 

[QUOTE=AK_SuperDuty;16787156]That's all good until these guys with red and blue lights stop you, which more and more states are starting to do, and you get a nice paycheck deduction. Or get in an accident and now you are screwed because those little stickers say you shouldn't have been hauling that much. It's a lot easier just to order the truck you need to do the job.

We all know that the truck is more capable than those stickers.