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I'm looking to do some upgrades to my truck's brake system. I've currently got the small single piston calipers on my truck with the small 10" drums in the rear. They work fine for stopping the truck but...I kinda miss the brakes my old '78 F250 had. My current truck is a '77 F150 supercab trailer Special, with the 460, C6, and 9" rear end.
Ive read TBear853's thread from when he did his brakes and the multiple threads on here about using the '79 F-350 master and booster combo along with F-350 wheel cylinders in the rear. The idea of using the calipers off a late model TBird sounds good, but don't really want to have to make my own brake hoses because the banjo bolts don't fit.
I would however, like to put on the dual piston calipers found on F-250/350 trucks. I assume I need new rotors, obviously calipers, and caliper mounting brackets to the spindle. Is that it? Can the mounting brackets be bought from a 3rd party (at work right now otherwise I would check myself)?
As for the rear brakes, I'd like to be able to put on the bigger 11" brakes. I'm guessing I would need new backing plates, wheel cylinders, shoes, hardware and drums...again is that it? Is it worth upgrading the rear brakes to one size larger even though 70% of the braking comes from the front?
I don't tow with it, and I don't drive like a racecar either. The brakes on it work fine but they are in need of a rebuild plus I wouldn't mind having the larger brakes for security (between crazy drivers and deer it's hell here any day of the week).
Is my thinking here correct? I searched for a long while last night for some kind of defacto parts list for this swap and didn't find much. Any insight is appreciated.
Haha I did consider that actually. What sucks is that there's only a handful of pick and pull yards around here, and on average the only stuff in their yards has been stripped completely of anything good. Otherwise that would be a viable option!
I didn't make up new hoses, I just made a slight mod to my near new ones and the excess material of the T-bird calipers to "index" the OEM hoses. I did it to save time and get use out of them ..... easy mods and I have the three SS braided hoses and fittings all listed and in a box ready for install ..... some other issues held me up or I would have already done them. Besides, the T-bird calipers offer a hair more clamping area that F-350 DP calipers while fitting inside a 15" 5 lug wheel.
The F350 rear wheel cylinders with OEM size rear brakes (11'x2.25" on my '77) in combo work so well that unless loaded heavy, I don't think I'd want more rear brake as they'll start a skid just before fronts now. I fully expect swapping to the SS hoses for all three on front will balance that out with a faster response time due to less expansion.
I'm looking to do some upgrades to my truck's brake system. I've currently got the small single piston calipers on my truck with the small 10" drums in the rear.
ALL 1968/79 F100's, 1975/96 F150's, some 1980/83 F100's have 11" x 2 1/4" rear brakes.
The only trucks that have 10" rear brakes (10" x 2 1/2") are some 1980/83 F100's.
Looks like I mis read my tape measure last time I was back there! Good to know though.
Tbear853 - the point about fitting in the wheels I had not considered. I'm running my factory 15" wheels with no plans of changing them so maybe the car calipers would be a better option.
T-Bear... followed your posts on the brake upgrade. I went with tuff stuff dual 8" booster ( clearance issues with tall valve covers) and master cylinder with the bigger bore. Staying with the original front calipers, F350 rear cylinders and a wildwood adjustable proportioning valve. I am also using the stainless 3 pc lines. I hope this will get me stopped !!!!
If it don't stop well enough, you can swap on the larger piston T-bird calipers. If you are already using the three SS braided lines, simple matter to get a couple different adapters at caliper end. The larger MC bore was intended to fill the calipers with larger pistons for more clamp force.
T-Bird calipers 7.51 sq in piston area.
F-350 dual piston calipers (smaller pistons X 2) 7.50 sq in piston area.
F-150 calipers 6.48 sq in.
I think you'd be satisfied with the '95 Explorer MC.
I bought my '69 F100 Ranger in April, 2011. It just had manual drum brakes all the way around when I bought it. A few months later in 2012, I added a dual diaphragm booster from a '75 F350. The brakes were easier to apply but were still not great.
In October, 2014, I removed the drum brake front suspension and installed a disc brake front suspension from a '77 F100. Also at this time, I removed the 1.00" bore cast iron MC and added the 1-1/16" Explorer MC. I don't know which one made the most improvement --the discs or the MC, maybe both together but, my truck responds and stops extremely well now.
A couple of months ago, I installed the same setup in a friend's '72 F100. This setup works really well in his truck too.
I think you'd be satisfied with the '95 Explorer MC.
I bought my '69 F100 Ranger in April, 2011. It just had manual drum brakes all the way around when I bought it. A few months later in 2012, I added a dual diaphragm booster from a '75 F350. The brakes were easier to apply but we're still not great.
In October, 2014, I removed the drum brake front suspension and installed a disc brake front suspension from a '77 F100. Also at this time, I removed the 1.00" bore cast iron MC and added the 1-1/16" Explorer MC. I don't know which one made the most improvement --the discs or the MC, maybe both together but, my truck responds and stops extremely well now.
A couple of months ago, I installed the same setup in a friend's '72 F100. This setup works really well in his truck too.
I do like the look of the OEM 70's setups in our trucks, but if the explorer master really displaces more fluid, then hell it makes it a worthy consideration. I saw TBear853 updates his thread on his brake job thread. Many good ideas here...time to build a shopping list!
I do like ... etc ... but if the explorer master really displaces more fluid, then hell it makes it a worthy consideration. ... etc ... time to build a shopping list!
Same bore size as the old style F-350 MC I used, and it get's stroked same distance as the F-350 MC when attached to the F-350 DDBooster like ultraranger did .... math says same displacement.
What I like is the easier means to check / add fluid with less mess and no leaking from a thin aftermarket lid gasket or thin lid that warps under pressure of that bail. I ended up reusing my OEM MC lid because the new one that came with my F-350 MC would not seal and let fluid leak out from sloshing.
Plus .... I had to modify an adapter to get my line to fit in the forward port with no leaking ..... the Explorer MC uses different tube nuts and would have been easier.
Same bore size as the old style F-350 MC I used, and it get's stroked same distance as the F-350 MC when attached to the F-350 DDBooster like ultraranger did .... math says same displacement.
What I like is the easier means to check / add fluid with less mess and no leaking from a thin aftermarket lid gasket or thin lid that warps under pressure of that bail. I ended up reusing my OEM MC lid because the new one that came with my F-350 MC would not seal and let fluid leak out from sloshing.
Plus .... I had to modify an adapter to get my line to fit in the forward port with no leaking ..... the Explorer MC uses different tube nuts and would have been easier.
I don't have a Dentside but best I recall, the '73-'77 F350s used a 1-1/4" bore MC and the '78/'79 F350s used a 1-1/16" bore MC.
The 1-1/16" bore '95 Explorer MC I installed is actually designed for 4-wheel disc brakes. I currently have '77 F100 front discs and the stock '69 F100 rear drums on my truck (same dimensions as the rear drums on a Dentside F100/F150 --11" x 2-1/4") but, the current configuration of the brakes responds very well with this MC. Eventually, I'll convert the rear drums to discs.
In the following link, I list the source and the part numbers for the specialty-sized SAE inverted flare fittings Ford used (so that adapters aren't needed on a conventional cast iron MC) as well as the part numbers for the ISO metric bubble flare fittings that are needed for the 'modern' Explorer MC.
I don't have a Dentside but best I recall, the '73-'77 F350s used a 1-1/4" bore MC and the '78/'79 F350s used a 1-1/16" bore MC.
With power brakes, my '77 F-150 OEM MC had a 1" bore ..... the F350 MC with dual diaphragm booster has a 1-1/16" bore.
I looked at Rock Auto's listings and they don't show anything other than 1-1/16" for the F350 in 1977?
I didn't check all years but I checked 1975 and there is a 1-1/4" MC for F-350s that year.
In the following link, I list the source and the part numbers for the specialty-sized SAE inverted flare fittings Ford used (so that adapters aren't needed on a conventional cast iron MC) as well as the part numbers for the ISO metric bubble flare fittings that are needed for the 'modern' Explorer MC.
With power brakes, my '77 F-150 OEM MC had a 1" bore ..... the F350 MC with dual diaphragm booster has a 1-1/16" bore.
I looked at Rock Auto's listings and they don't show anything other than 1-1/16" for the F350 in 1977?
I didn't check all years but I checked 1975 and there is a 1-1/4" MC for F-350s that year.
Thanks!
You're welcome.
My '75 F350 donor dual diaphragm booster/brackets had the large 1-1/4" bore MC on it at the time I got the brake booster from the wrecking yard.
I traded the booster in as a core for a newly rebuilt one. I installed a brand new 1.00" bore MC on the booster but, this was not a good combination in having a powerful booster, small bore MC and self-energizing 4-wheel drum brakes. The brakes were too sensitive with this configuration.
My brake booster doesn't mount to a bellcrank (cantilever) bracket assembly. The input rod goes straight from the brake pedal to the back of the booster so, my pedal ratio (mechanical advantage) didn't reduce in going from manual brakes to power brakes. The pedal ratio was still high --around 6.5:1, compared to the bellcrank version that would reduce the pedal ratio to around 3.5:1. Without being able to reduce the high pedal ratio, the only way around this is to go up in MC bore size. Going from the 1.00" bore MC to the 1-1/16" bore reduced the output pressure of the MC by about 6%.
The 1-1/4" or 1-1/16" MC bore MIGHT have been dependent on whether the booster installed was a direct connection to the brake pedal or, whether it was mounted to a bellcrank bracket assembly (?).
Now that my truck has front discs and a slight reduction in output pressure of the slightly larger bore MC (from the previous 1.00" bore to the current 1-1/16" bore), the brake balance is very good.
But starting from scratch with no brake booster bracket has been kind of my hangup. I need to get out to my local wrecking yard and see what I can find.
I referenced three master cylinders in the thread I linked above which are all the modern style. There is also a 1 1/8" in between option.
11-21-2016, 07:37 AM
in the rear.
