Hard starting
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Hard starting
89 F150 5.0 it has 38lbs on the fuel rail new plugs ,wires,cap,rotor ,fuel filter. If I go out and try to start it ,it will not crank when cold I have to turn the distributor about 12 degrees counter clockwise then it will crank after turning it over for a bit I can put a timing light on it and it is now at 10 AFT with the spout connector pulled I can spin the distributor clockwise and get it to 10 BTD and it sounds good. While it is idling it surges some if I try and bump the gas after letting it sit in idle for 10 minutes it hesitates and dies. Now since it is warm I can restart it its hard to but it will start. If I give it gas it sounds good. When I say hard to crank it sounds like it is running but you have to keep the starter engaged for about 5 seconds longer then it will be running. What am I missing? TPS? EEC? What is the retard timing doing to make it start cold.
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I think I took the EGR valve off it has a tube in the bottom a vacuum hose going to it and a connector on it is mounted on the throttle body I sprayed it out good with brake cleaner and worked the plunger. It now cranks at proper timing 10 BTD when cold hard to start still. But it does start. It sounds like an exhaust leak on that side which it has had for a while am I on the right track. I hope I can get to the other end of the tube easily. The only reason I have not replaced the truck is because it was my wifes Dad who has passed. Am I on the right track? Please advise.
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I replaced the ERG valve and position sensor that mounts on top of it. Still very hard starting. Checked vacuum hoses with mouth and finger on other end that all were good. If the MAP sensor is bad will it cause this?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Rhode Island
The MAP sensor could cause hard starting if it were bad, but it would generally also cause very poor running in general.
The ECT (coolant temp) sensor is probably the most important sensor for startup. Another important aspect is fuel pressure. If you have a bad regulator or check valve in the pump assembly, your fuel pressure could be bleeding down when you turn the truck off. When you go to start it, the truck really won't fire until fuel pressure has built up again.
The ECT (coolant temp) sensor is probably the most important sensor for startup. Another important aspect is fuel pressure. If you have a bad regulator or check valve in the pump assembly, your fuel pressure could be bleeding down when you turn the truck off. When you go to start it, the truck really won't fire until fuel pressure has built up again.
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I replaced the MAP and ECT sensor still will not crank. I have to turn the distributor counterclockwise then it starts after some cranking then I set timing back to 10 BTD and it idles good and sounds good. Will stumble and die under load. After warm it starts at proper timing hard to start but it will after some cranking. 38 lbs of pressure maintaining on the fuel rail. Could it be the ECM? The check engine light is not on. Any other suggestions would be helpful.
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Lead Driver
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Old cars (like pre-1930's) used to have a lever to retard the timing during starting. I know that doesn't help you, but there is something about retarded timing that helps an engine get going. It's neat you figured that out on your own.
Lead Driver
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From: Rhode Island
Retarded timing back in the day was just so the hand-cranks or early very weak electric starters could turn the engine over. I really don't see anything inherent about retarded timing that should help an engine start.
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My plan today is and if my logic is off please advise. I am going to pull the spout connector and try and crank at 10 btdc as Lead Head suggested. Next will be to pull the EGR valve off even though it has been replaced I will plug the vacuum side on the engine with it removed and the vacuum line going to it and see if it starts to verify vacuum not leaking and catalatic converter not being an issue. I will purchase an ignition module for the side of the distributor I know they can cause crazy issues normally no spark and fail when get warm but hey my luck is mine runs better when it is warm. This should not be kicking my butt.
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Spout off made no difference EGR off and blocked no difference replaced ignition module no difference. If I get it up to normal operating temp it will crank with timing correct after about 5 seconds of starter engaged.
Lead Driver
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From: Rhode Island
5 seconds of cranking is still far too long. Before we condemn the computer, I would get a multimeter and someone to help you.
Disconnect the electrical connection from the TFI module and hook a multimeter up to pin 4 (3rd from the top), then have someone crank the truck (mind your fingers). Pin 4 should have battery voltage on it while cranking.
Picture of which pin to use here: http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/te...comparison.gif
Disconnect the electrical connection from the TFI module and hook a multimeter up to pin 4 (3rd from the top), then have someone crank the truck (mind your fingers). Pin 4 should have battery voltage on it while cranking.
Picture of which pin to use here: http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/te...comparison.gif
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Ok been a while since I worked on it. The heat and aggravation took its toll. Those are the 2 things that will always make me spend money. I took it to the shop today dropped my keys in the box with a note. I Will post with the outcome.