Did I Miss Something?
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: The Land Of Time
Did I Miss Something?
Hey Folks, trying to get an idea on what the '17 will bring price wise. I was looking to build a dually with the wide track and it looks like that option is no longer available with the 4.30 and a diesel or did I miss something?
Good looking truck, but I don't know if I need a 450 just to get the 4.30 and a wide track. Id like to stay with a diesel and I think the 4.10 will be ok, just trying to build a truck for whatever my future may bring me.
And with an MSRP of just about 70k why in the world should we have to pay another 1100 for LED lighting?
Sarge
Good looking truck, but I don't know if I need a 450 just to get the 4.30 and a wide track. Id like to stay with a diesel and I think the 4.10 will be ok, just trying to build a truck for whatever my future may bring me.
And with an MSRP of just about 70k why in the world should we have to pay another 1100 for LED lighting?
Sarge
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
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From: Lewisberry, Penn
4.30 is only on the gas models unless you go to 450. Wide track is only on the 450 as well. As for pricing, because they can. They can ask the same questions about why you're buying a luxury truck when a work truck would do the same job. Because you can!
Seriously though, inflation becomes noticeable on expensive items. Even if you buy a truck every 6 years, a $63k truck in 2010 is nearly $70k now just one dollar increases. Additionally you do have technology and improved base model options and standard equipment. On top of that, for the moment, we aren't nearly as bad off as we were in 2010 so they can pad their income now so they hopefully can continue to not take bankruptcy and bailouts.
Seriously though, inflation becomes noticeable on expensive items. Even if you buy a truck every 6 years, a $63k truck in 2010 is nearly $70k now just one dollar increases. Additionally you do have technology and improved base model options and standard equipment. On top of that, for the moment, we aren't nearly as bad off as we were in 2010 so they can pad their income now so they hopefully can continue to not take bankruptcy and bailouts.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,121
Likes: 655
From: NH
GM, on the other hand, has an inferior truck...but they have just made LED day running lamps standard on all models and HID headlamps standard on lower trims with LED headlamps standard on upper trims.
People want the xenon or LED lamps, along with the LED DRL, for a variety of reasons. Theoretically, these lamps are brighter and safer! But they also look nicer, make the vehicle look more upscale, and make people think you are driving the latest model.
Just the other day, I saw a new GMC pickup driving along. Based upon the nice LED DRL and xenon headlamps, I imagined it was a Denali or higher-end truck. Then I noticed it had steel rims and the glass wasn't dark tinted. Perception goes a long ways, and people buy based upon image.
I think Ford will be forced to correct this in the next year or two. That is not going to make people happy who just spent the extra to get the lights now (like me).
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,336
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From: Western New York
Adding to what Troverman said I would not buy a Chevy for any reason including the headlamps. I also would not buy the CC and extra $5000 for the privilege of spending $1100 on LED headlamps and I want them badly. Ford may be relying on the fact their customer base may grumble over the cost and then buy the truck of their choice anyway, even if it means sacrificing a much wanted add-on. And after I get to see in person if the LED is that much better I may bend over and go the aftermarket OEM route. But that is a bunch of money too at around $1700. Maybe Ford will wake up and see the light.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
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From: Lewisberry, Penn
You sorta summed it up. Ford makes a superior truck. GM puts fancy stuff on everything to dress up a turd. I for one would NOT want LED lights, and don't want to cost of my work trucks going up by even one dollar just to make you feel like you're getting something for free so I can have something I don't want. Replacement cost is way to high. I like cheap and simple, and so do many other folks. More for less is a great way to sell stuff, but doesn't mean it makes happy long term owners.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,121
Likes: 655
From: NH
You sorta summed it up. Ford makes a superior truck. GM puts fancy stuff on everything to dress up a turd. I for one would NOT want LED lights, and don't want to cost of my work trucks going up by even one dollar just to make you feel like you're getting something for free so I can have something I don't want. Replacement cost is way to high. I like cheap and simple, and so do many other folks. More for less is a great well to sell stuff, but doesn't mean it makes happy long term owners.
Still, better light needs to be a priority. The headlights on the current Super Dutys are not great.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Likes: 7
From: Lewisberry, Penn
Headlight design has always been a back and forth between driver functionality and oncoming traffic functionality. The cars with a EU pedigree (like my Fiesta and the Transit Connects) have noticeably poor low beams compared to many other vehicles. Designed for urban use for sure. You get familiar with them and just don't out drive your headlights. I'm sure replacing the headlights cost more than the $1100 option does, so when you hit a deer on the back road you are looking at a big chunk of change that will make aluminum cost look like a penny in the bucket.
No doubt LEDs are awesome. I paid $800 for a small setup over my 40g aquarium and they grow coral like its the sun. I just am not sold that it's cost benefits are there for headlights, and would rather keep MSRP cost lower as well as repairs lower. Fewer standard features makes that more possible and probably only 5% of truck buyers ask me what sorta lights are on the truck for retail deals, I don't think I've ever been asked for a fleet deal.
No doubt LEDs are awesome. I paid $800 for a small setup over my 40g aquarium and they grow coral like its the sun. I just am not sold that it's cost benefits are there for headlights, and would rather keep MSRP cost lower as well as repairs lower. Fewer standard features makes that more possible and probably only 5% of truck buyers ask me what sorta lights are on the truck for retail deals, I don't think I've ever been asked for a fleet deal.
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Cargo Master
Joined: May 2007
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From: Western New York
I do a fair amount of night driving and as I age the ability of the eye diminishes somewhat. More for some than others, but it does effect almost everyone. And the second side is the ever increasing deer population . I want every candlepower of light I can get in hopes that I see them before they attempt suicide. And yes the LED headlights would be expensive to replace but even one deer not hit would be worth the cost upfront, so to speak.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2016
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There will be aftermarket options for those of us who refuse to play the "game" and pay the $5000 upgrade cost from Lariat base to get the LEDs. The aftermarket options won't be cheap - but they will be compared to the cost of upgrading your build with Ford.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,121
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From: NH
Unfortunately, they are making those luxury features non-optional if you want the lights.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2016
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Unfortunately, they are making those luxury features non-optional if you want the lights.
In time, maybe next go around, these will either be standard on XLT and up, or available as a stand alone package.
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,336
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From: Western New York
LED aftermarket upgrade with OEM lights is around $1800 for an F150. Then you can e-bay your take offs but it might be a while before there is much demand.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 306
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From: Maine
I did contemplate the fact that companies and folks buying XL trim trucks might prefer the traditional halogen lights / enclosures because the bulbs are cheap, the electric is simple, and enclosures are cheap to replace in a collision (relatively.)
Still, better light needs to be a priority. The headlights on the current Super Dutys are not great.
Still, better light needs to be a priority. The headlights on the current Super Dutys are not great.
My 06 Silverado half ton and my girlfriend's new '16 Imprezza both have incandescent bulbs, and they're both awesome. My buddies '14 F-150 has incandescent as well, but its light is pitiful by comparison.
Guess my point is... we can make headlights excellent or awful with LED, incandescent, or HID, it's the quality of the lamp in general that ends up meaning the most.
I personally hate every HID I've used. The HIDs are only on the low beams, which is dumb, and while they have not improved my ability to see compared to my current truck or gf's car, they have made it harder for oncoming traffic to see anything, and the cutoff is so harsh on them that the rougher roads I'm used to regularly send the road in and out of light, instead of a more gradual change. LEDs are more efficient, but as Frantz stated, replacement cost is a bit silly, and I'm not sure they actually help over a well-designed traditional headlight.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,121
Likes: 655
From: NH
I agree better light needs to be a priority but I'm not sure that I buy LEDs improving it by that much, and this is from someone who's added LEDs everywhere he can on his current vehicles.
My 06 Silverado half ton and my girlfriend's new '16 Imprezza both have incandescent bulbs, and they're both awesome. My buddies '14 F-150 has incandescent as well, but its light is pitiful by comparison.
Guess my point is... we can make headlights excellent or awful with LED, incandescent, or HID, it's the quality of the lamp in general that ends up meaning the most.
I personally hate every HID I've used. The HIDs are only on the low beams, which is dumb, and while they have not improved my ability to see compared to my current truck or gf's car, they have made it harder for oncoming traffic to see anything, and the cutoff is so harsh on them that the rougher roads I'm used to regularly send the road in and out of light, instead of a more gradual change. LEDs are more efficient, but as Frantz stated, replacement cost is a bit silly, and I'm not sure they actually help over a well-designed traditional headlight.
My 06 Silverado half ton and my girlfriend's new '16 Imprezza both have incandescent bulbs, and they're both awesome. My buddies '14 F-150 has incandescent as well, but its light is pitiful by comparison.
Guess my point is... we can make headlights excellent or awful with LED, incandescent, or HID, it's the quality of the lamp in general that ends up meaning the most.
I personally hate every HID I've used. The HIDs are only on the low beams, which is dumb, and while they have not improved my ability to see compared to my current truck or gf's car, they have made it harder for oncoming traffic to see anything, and the cutoff is so harsh on them that the rougher roads I'm used to regularly send the road in and out of light, instead of a more gradual change. LEDs are more efficient, but as Frantz stated, replacement cost is a bit silly, and I'm not sure they actually help over a well-designed traditional headlight.