Hey all. My work truck gave up the "magic smoke" last week.
It's a '99 F350 Cab & Chassis w/ the Triton V10 Motor.

I like the V10. The V10 performs better in the city(I live in Long Beach, CA) & Has a lower overall operating cost than a diesel. It's a pig @ the pump, but fuel is a tax write off.

I'm looking to build an E85 specific motor now. No smog required for E85 vehicles in my state. I'm looking for suggestions on high compression pistons(Looking to hit 14:1+) & a quality injector that's good for E85.

Thanks for any advice.
-Joe

 

not 14 to 1. valve crash... and who makes a cylinder head gasket to take that pressure?

will the Head material withstand that much pressure.. getting near Diesel pressures.

11 or 12 MAX.... what about piston side Load... spark timing changes.

and over 12 you must have a Forged crankshaft... have one?


did you see/read the story of Ford load testing the GT....aka GT40 new engine a few years ago... nose of crankshaft broke off and hit the celling 14 feet up. go Forged or go home.

 

I've never heard of a build like this. Are you looking for maximum performance with said ethanol conversion? Even if 14:1 were possible, I don't think you'd find parts for that build. You're looking to make quite a unique build on a 17-year-old truck.

Setting it up for E85 should be possible, but probably not the engine mods you're thinking about.

 

How do you get out of smogging it?

 

Right.
Unless you have an EPA certification on your newly built engine, they will go by the sticker under the hood.

 

Ok, I hate to be like this but there is a good bit of mis-information in here. You can do 14:1 but you will have to order custom pistons. They are the same pistons that the 5.4l uses but you have 2 more. They will need the corrected compression height that will make it zero deck. You will need to head stud it for sure, there will be no need to change the crankshaft. Over 12:1 does not REQUIRE a forged crankshaft. And you will be really surprised at how well the 2v sohc engines resist detonation. These are heavy trucks and pull a bunch of weight right off the line so that will increase chances of detonation. E85 should fix that.

Head gaskets, what are the options for them? If you could get a fel-pro that is .036" crushed then you will be ok as far as holding the pressure. If you could get thinner then it would be better so you can correct the squish distance.

Stainless core injectors will be the way to go, I think ID makes them.

Long tube headers will be a must.

What kind of camshaft profile will you be running in this thing?

Lastly, you should think about replacing the connecting rods, If you are wanting all this pressure then the rods need to be changed from stock.


Custom tune will be required as well.



You guys wont believe me, but I have a machinist friend that just built a 5.4l that is 18:1 compression. It needs to be tuned because right now with the timing it has in it, the thing will detonate at idle with e85. I just put this up so everyone knows that its possible to do this. Will all the work be worth it?....probably not, but it can be done.

 

A few thoughts:

Don't get too caught up with static compression ratio. Dynamic compression ratio is what you really want to be paying attention to. There are definitely folks out there running 14:1 SCR on NA E85 setups, but you'll find that they're running big cams, which keeps the DCR down- and no, there is no hard and fast rule for max DCR for E85 due to all of the variables involved. At 14:1 SCR with stock cams, I think your DCR will be too high.

Tom also brings up a very valid point: there just isn't that kind of a performance aftermarket for the 6.8L V10. If you were building an LS engine/old-school SBC/etc you would have a huge selection of off the shelf aftermarket parts to choose from to get to where you want to be, but to achieve the same thing with the V10 is going to require a lot of custom parts and be exceedingly expensive, relative to a motor with a large performance aftermarket. I'd love to see a gnarly, NA E85 6.8 build, though...

Anyway, what I would personally recommend for someone wanting to take advantage of E85 to make a bunch of power would be to go forced induction. Build the motor for boost- forged internals (quick search says the 6.8 comes with a forged crank, so you're ahead of the game there if that's the case), head studs, etc. Bump the SCR up to about 10:1. Slap a blower or turbo(s) on it with a moderate amount of boost. Should net a sizable increase in power without pushing the envelope too much, which I think would be desirable given that this is a work truck. Don't forget the "hidden" expenses, like tuning, fuel system, exhaust (if supercharged- part and parcel with a turbo), and beefing up the transmission.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the actual ethanol content of E85 can change quite a bit over the course of the year, and could effectively be E70 in the winter. So, a build/tune that's "safe" in the summer may not be so in the winter, which is another reason to not go crazy with boost or compression ratio in a vehicle that sees regular use year-round.

 

 

I'm not sure about other states. Here in CA, You file a "statement of facts" and the CHP does and inspection. They then send you a new title with the new fuel listed. E85, CNG, LPG, Diesel '96 and older, no smog. It's the same process one does for a Fummins or Cummins Swap.

 

Yea. A fair amount of bunk info. It's common when talking E85. I get this a lot. Most just don't know the facts. @ 116 octane & with it's own oxygen molecule, you can cram a bunch in there. If you want decent performance & mileage from E85, Squeezing every last BTU from the fuel is essential.

As far as after market, Lets not forget we are talking a bout 4.6l pistons and 5.4l rods. It's modular guys, It takes parts from the other two blocks. I'm looking at DSS racing Rods & Pistons.

I'm not looking for "Huge Power". E85 has roughly 118,000 BTU. Pump gas has around 168,000 BTU. However, with E85 you can cram almost twice as much into the cylinder. Making around 230,000 btu. To full take advantage of E85, you need to bump the hell out of the compression and advance the timing way out.

With a purpose build motor, you can get great performance with fuel mileage that is only 5% to 10% off of gas. It's Eco friendly and I cut some red tape. Also, fun fact. Running E85 increases your time between services. You only have to change the oil every 15k on synthetics. It's lower on the carbon scale. The oil comes out like a yellow cloudy color vs black.

 

I like the 10:1 ratio w/ some boost idea. I did kick it around a bit. I feel like the supercharger gives up some reliability and adds some extra service interval. I tow with this truck, a goose neck with 8k on it. Superchargers can add extra heat while towing.... Still a rad idea.... But better for a truck that's not used for business.

 

When you are talking about adding this much compression without taking massive amounts of the head deck off, you will be looking at 5.4l specific pistons. They have a taller compression height and bring the piston to zero deck. Down side of e85 is the corrosive properties that it has. Youll be fine for some time but eventually the fuel system will not be happy. Straight off the bat though, youll need bigger injectors and a bigger fuel pump that is e85 safe. E85 also runs cooler so that could help out when you are towing.

Ive often thought about building a nasty v10 to put in my mustang. Just a pipe dream though lol.

 

the statement of NOT needing forged crankshaft going 12 to 1 or more is CORRECT...


its your engine and your money...


but no drag racer worth his salt would do it. because if the crankshaft breaks.. you just lost everything... block and ALL...

 

a sleeper type of car.. I built one for a friend around 1982 or 3.


a stock looking AMC Pacer... with a 450 hp Chevy small block engine and 4 speed transmission..


very light .. and QUICK. for the street. and even used the factory hub caps.
if you did not notice the cable controlled exhaust dumps in front of the rear tires. .. it looked like Grandma going to the food store.
and He loved messing with the 5.0 mustangs...

 

How many n/a modular engine crankshafts have you seen break because they have been over powered or have run too much compression? I just finished build a 13:1 compression 4.6l that spun 7K rpm regularly, it has the stock cast crankshaft. They are lighter, spin easier, and are much more durable than people believe them to be. My car is 12:1 and still has the cast crank in it.