Hey folks, this is my first post and i greatly appreciate help. If i post something incorrectly or out of order please let me know. I know a lot of my truck information is not listed but i will try to post all below until i figure it out.

I have a 1985 f150 base. It has a 302 engine with 48,000 original miles. This is a 2 wheel drive truck with overdrive. I have the feedback carb setup, unfortunately. I have no vacuum lines going to the distributor, just wires. I have a coil, and a distributor mounted ignition control module.

My problem is that i am getting fuel (definitely) I am getting spark (pulled plug wire and i am getting arc) but there is no turn over. The engine will crank. It will not ignite fuel or starting fluid.

The background:

This truck set for 6 years and was a gift. Was missing feedack carb with overdrive attachments. Found replacement feedback carb from 85 e150 van. I installed carb, it started fine and ran smooth. I parked it, came back a week later in regular weather connections and it wouldnt start. just crank. We didnt move the truck or change anything, just wouldnt start. We checked for fuel and spark and had both. Out of many attempts to start (maybe 40 times) we had one backfire out of the carb with no other spurts or catches.

I read online that the Ignition control modules are known to go bad, as this module is distributor mounted. So i bought a new distributor cap....a new coil.....a new ignition control module. When i pulled the ICM out, the rubber around the three spade connectors in the distributor housing and pickup coil was melted. So i just bought a remanufactured distributor to put in as well. Before i took distributor out, i marked the location of the distributor versus intake and the location of the rotor cap to the distributor. When i took the original distributor in as a core the auto part store provided me the reman replacement. I marked the new distributor with the same marks as the old one. The problem was that the new distributor had the same bottom assembly but instead of a cap style rotor button it had a push on style rotor button. I checked all stores Oreilys, NAPA, autozone, advanced auto and rock auto and they all had this push on rotor button style for 302 motor. The distributor in my truck (which was defintely original) was apparently a 4.9 style distributor. is this normal for ford trucks to be this way?

I installed distributor and the ICM with heat paste, the coil and the new distributor cap. We made sure that we were at top dead center (by finger compression) and when the air in passenger cylinder #1 blew my finger we cut crank. We looked at rotor button and it was lined up with number 1 spark plug.

No luck, we are getting fire but no start and it is doing the same exact thing as it was when i started.

Could the truck have been sent out with a 4.9 distributor from factory? or are all the stores wrong? could have i recieved another bad ICM?

It acts out of time or that it isnt getting enough spark. I am not familiar with ford trucks or feedback systems.

What should i do?

Appreciate the help.

 

I'm no expert on this system that you have but I'll give you some insight that I think may be helpful. Others may be able to elaborate more.

I think you mean it will turn over, but will not fire?

Based on that...

The background:
The first thing I can think of here is moisture under that cap. You may still get spark under this condition but it may not be what you need to fire the engine. That's not to say there isn't or wasn't a failure elsewhere in the system- but for the truck to have sat untouched after running fine and then all of sudden it won't start- seems to me moisture is a possibility.

You say you have spark - did you test the individual plugs or just the coil?

They do go bad, usually once the engine heats up, the heat from the motor overheats the module and shuts the engine down. You can tell this is the problem by letting the engine cool down for a while and after that it should restart. These modules can be tested; usually AutoZone or Advance has the machine to do this. When you initially got it running with the replacement carb, had you driven it at all after that or just ran it in the driveway?


I probably would have sprung for a whole tune-up; plugs, wires, cap and rotor. What did the rotor look like? Any corrosion on the tip or carbon build-up on the upper tang? Sometimes the carbon brush on the inside of the cap can wear down and cause intermittent or complete loss of contact and then forget about getting spark...


Sounds like the module overheated. How does the wiring look leading into the harness? Trace back as far as possible and look for any burn marks, blistered or split insulation.

Anytime a new distributor is installed, static timing should be reset. You may have gotten the mark close on the new distributor but I don't know how you could've gotten it exact. All it takes is one tooth either way to mess with the timing enough to give you major running problems or a no-start. It looks like you did this so I'll touch on that when I get to that part in your post.

I don't think this matters (others may weigh in with better info) as long as cap/rotor match and distributor length AND GEARS ARE THE SAME! Make sure if a steel gear came out, the new dist. has a steel gear and if a Cast iron gear came out, a cast iron gear is on the new distributor.

So in my experience, you've done everything right except check the timing mark after your finger blew out of cylinder one. You have to make absolute certain that the piston is at the very top of the cylinder. It can be hard to get this in one try by just kicking the motor over, so get it close to where your finger starts to blow out and then turn the engine over by hand with a breaker bar and line the timing mark up on the harmonic balancer with the indicator. I know on my truck it's 8 degrees BTDC. I'm not sure what it is on yours but you'll want to mark it with chalk and then line that up. Then attempt to drop the distributor in. You may find you have to rotate the rotor away from the mark one way or the other in order for it to fall in. If you must kick the motor over to get it to drop in, you may want to hand turn the engine over in the direction to allow the mark to come away from the indicator so that when you kick the motor over to drop the dist. in, by the time the distributor drops in, the mark is dead on. This may take a few tries, be patient. It once took me 2 or 3 hours to get this right, and on another vehicle I own, it only took 15 minutes. In theory, with everything lined up, the thing should drop right in.

[QUOTE=lawsonej;16320634]No luck, we are getting fire but no start and it is doing the same exact thing as it was when i started.[\QUOTE]

Do you have a shop manual? It's indispensable as it has all sorts of troubleshooting guides and testing procedures. I spent all weekend buried in mine trying to sort out an ignition issue and without it, I probably would have just burned the truck down LOL


Reset your timing the way I outlined above and try again


The coil should also be tested, however it could also be worn spark plug wires. I would seriously hold off on anymore work until you get a shop manual. Faxon Auto Lit. is a great place to look or ebay as well. I got mine on a CD but I think I would prefer the paper version. CD is usually more affordable but paper version is easier to flip through.

It will outline every possible test for the ignition system and system specs as well.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsonej
We made sure that we were at top dead center (by finger compression) and when the air in passenger cylinder #1 blew my finger we cut crank. We looked at rotor button and it was lined up with number 1 spark plug.
So in my experience, you've done everything right except check the timing mark after your finger blew out of cylinder one. You have to make absolute certain that the piston is at the very top of the cylinder. It can be hard to get this in one try by just kicking the motor over, so get it close to where your finger starts to blow out and then turn the engine over by hand with a breaker bar and line the timing mark up on the harmonic balancer with the indicator. I know on my truck it's 8 degrees BTDC. I'm not sure what it is on yours but you'll want to mark it with chalk and then line that up. Then attempt to drop the distributor in. You may find you have to rotate the rotor away from the mark one way or the other in order for it to fall in. If you must kick the motor over to get it to drop in, you may want to hand turn the engine over in the direction to allow the mark to come away from the indicator so that when you kick the motor over to drop the dist. in, by the time the distributor drops in, the mark is dead on. This may take a few tries, be patient. It once took me 2 or 3 hours to get this right, and on another vehicle I own, it only took 15 minutes. In theory, with everything lined up, the thing should drop right in.

What he said. I would go back and reset motor to TDC and make sure the dist rotor is pointing to #1 and see if it will fire off & run.
If not check for spark first at coil to dist. then at the end of a few plug wires.
If that checks good with a nice blue spark and a snap sound pull the plugs and see what they look like.


Let us know how you make out.
Dave ----

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but.....
I really wish you would have had time to read a bunch of postings on this website before you went and bought a bunch of parts.
First off....
If you do get it running....and if everything is not right with your other smog and control components the computer will automatically put you in limp home mode by not increasing distributor advance, etc.
Whatever carb you end up with be very careful to adjust the AOD linkage correctly or you will burn up the trans very quickly.
I know it means spending more money but.....read some posts on this forum and do the DS2 swap.
It will make life so much easier.
You will also have to replace carb also.
Read, read, read before spending any more money or time.

 

If you think you have a computer issue try removing the spout plug and starting the truck.
This will lock the timing but take out the computer.
If it starts, you'll know where the problem is.

You say you used heat sink paste when reattaching the module.
If there is silver bearing paste in the connector it may cause some weird signals.

 

Gentlemen, I appreciate all the suggestions and help. I hope you had a great memorial say.

I want to start by saying, i am not a person who throws parts at the equation. My intention this time was to go ahead and update some parts while i was working on the truck because it had been sitting for several years. When i took ICM out and saw that the distributor rubber components where melted, my choice was definitely to replace them.

My problem was that i am not familiar with this year of truck. With every other vehicle I have owned, my plain haynes manual has been more than sufficient to diagnose a vehicle problem and fix it. On this year, with a feedback carb, emissions equipment, computer system and special overdrive adjustments, the haynes manual doesn't elaborate at all. So its been a learning curve. But i agree it would be a good idea to get a legit shop manual and i appreciate the suggestions on which kinds to by.

I did review the DS2 swap on here and agree that it definitely looks like a positive option. Would this be a similar option as adding an HEI standalone distributor? Ive had others suggest this route as well.

The heat sink paint i used was supplied with the ICM, i can look to see what its contents are.

I will try the methods above for making absolutely sure i have the right timing. As well as checking spark quality and Harmonic balancer markings, I will let you all know how it goes.

Thank you: ArdWrknTrk, Timehunter, FuzzFace2 and dnkensinger for your help and comments. dnkensinger, i know i missed answering some of your questions below, this coming weekend when i can work on the truck again, i will give you specifics on the things you asked.

 

Personally ...I would do the DS2 swap and leave the stand alone HEI distributor alone.
I did some research and was thinking about purchasing an HEI if I ever had any problems with my DS@ swap. Don't remember what all I found but if I have any problems with my DS2,....I will fix and keep it.
The HEI is a good candidate for a beater truck you don't want to spend much time or money on....again my opinion....like bellybuttons...everyone has em......
Hopefully you have a few junkyards around you so you don't have to spend much more money.
I also have the 85 302 AOD and feedback carb. Then did the DS2 and carb swap.
I got rid of my smog pump and its accessories,..just try and keep some of the smog stuff. Get an older egr valve, an older switch for the fuel evap stuff..
Just read more of the old posts and you will have a good running, dependable truck.