Trailer Brake Limit?
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
Trailer Brake Limit?
I pulled my 25' Sea Ray to the lake today, which is only the second time I've pulled it with the 2015. (And it pulled it really well!) When I used the trailer controller to set up the braking I found that even on the max setting, 10, I couldn't get it to slide the trailer's tires, although it did brake pretty well. But, I'm fairly sure that when I towed it with Rusty a year ago I could get it to slide the tires with its controller.
So, is there an additional adjustment I'm missing?
So, is there an additional adjustment I'm missing?
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 319
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From: NKY
Is that still the norm/standard for setting a brake controller, adjust till tires begin to slide on gravel/dirt, etc? I set mine at 7.5 and get a good braking sensation from trailer, but haven't done the gravel/dirt test yet.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
On Page 265 the manual says:
Procedure for Adjusting Gain
Note: Only perform this procedure in a traffic-free environment at speeds of approximately 20-25 mph (30-40 km/h). The gain setting sets the trailer brake controller for the specific towing condition. You should change the setting as towing conditions change. Changes to towing conditions include trailer load, vehicle load, road conditions and weather. The gain should be set to provide the maximum trailer braking assistance while making sure the trailer wheels do not lock when using the brakes. Locked trailer wheels may lead to trailer instability.
1. Make sure the trailer brakes are in good working condition, functioning normally and properly adjusted. See your trailer dealer if necessary.
2. Hook up the trailer and make the electrical connections according to the trailer manufacturer's instructions.
3. When you plug in a trailer with electric or electric-over-hydraulic brakes, a message confirming connection appears in the information display.
4. Use the gain adjustment (+ and -) buttons to increase or decrease the gain setting to the desired starting point. A gain setting of 6.0 is a good starting point for heavier loads.
5. In a traffic-free environment, tow the trailer on a dry, level surface at a speed of 20-25 mph (30-40 km/h) and squeeze the manual control lever completely.
6. If the trailer wheels lock up, indicated by squealing tires, reduce the gain setting. If the trailer wheels turn freely, increase the gain setting. Repeat Steps 5 and 6 until the gain setting is at a point just below trailer wheel lock-up. If towing a heavier trailer, trailer wheel lock-up may not be attainable even with the maximum gain setting of 10.
Apparently I have a "heavier trailer" as I cannot get lockup.
Note: Only perform this procedure in a traffic-free environment at speeds of approximately 20-25 mph (30-40 km/h). The gain setting sets the trailer brake controller for the specific towing condition. You should change the setting as towing conditions change. Changes to towing conditions include trailer load, vehicle load, road conditions and weather. The gain should be set to provide the maximum trailer braking assistance while making sure the trailer wheels do not lock when using the brakes. Locked trailer wheels may lead to trailer instability.
1. Make sure the trailer brakes are in good working condition, functioning normally and properly adjusted. See your trailer dealer if necessary.
2. Hook up the trailer and make the electrical connections according to the trailer manufacturer's instructions.
3. When you plug in a trailer with electric or electric-over-hydraulic brakes, a message confirming connection appears in the information display.
4. Use the gain adjustment (+ and -) buttons to increase or decrease the gain setting to the desired starting point. A gain setting of 6.0 is a good starting point for heavier loads.
5. In a traffic-free environment, tow the trailer on a dry, level surface at a speed of 20-25 mph (30-40 km/h) and squeeze the manual control lever completely.
6. If the trailer wheels lock up, indicated by squealing tires, reduce the gain setting. If the trailer wheels turn freely, increase the gain setting. Repeat Steps 5 and 6 until the gain setting is at a point just below trailer wheel lock-up. If towing a heavier trailer, trailer wheel lock-up may not be attainable even with the maximum gain setting of 10.
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 66
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From: four oaks
then go to page 273 of owners manual to read how to setup brake controller mode and brake effort settings thru the driver information display......here it is from owner manual:
Procedure for Setting Trailer Brake Controller Mode Select the correct option using the information display. Choose electric for trailers with electromagentic drum brakes or EOH for trailers with electric over hydraulic brake systems. See Information Displays (page 108).
Trailer Brake Effort Setting The trailer brake controller allows the user to customize how aggressively the trailer brakes engage. The default value is "Low" and is the recommended setting for most trailers. If your trailer's brakes require more initial voltage, or if you prefer more aggressive trailer braking, then select either the "Medium" or the "High" setting.
selecting low, med, high will make a big difference. i know this sounds like i'm being a smart a$$, but go thru the information display to see what options are available to you on your truck and if you don't understand then go to the book.
Procedure for Setting Trailer Brake Controller Mode Select the correct option using the information display. Choose electric for trailers with electromagentic drum brakes or EOH for trailers with electric over hydraulic brake systems. See Information Displays (page 108).
Trailer Brake Effort Setting The trailer brake controller allows the user to customize how aggressively the trailer brakes engage. The default value is "Low" and is the recommended setting for most trailers. If your trailer's brakes require more initial voltage, or if you prefer more aggressive trailer braking, then select either the "Medium" or the "High" setting.
selecting low, med, high will make a big difference. i know this sounds like i'm being a smart a$$, but go thru the information display to see what options are available to you on your truck and if you don't understand then go to the book.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
then go to page 273 of owners manual to read how to setup brake controller mode and brake effort settings thru the driver information display......here it is from owner manual:
Procedure for Setting Trailer Brake Controller Mode Select the correct option using the information display. Choose electric for trailers with electromagentic drum brakes or EOH for trailers with electric over hydraulic brake systems. See Information Displays (page 108).
Trailer Brake Effort Setting The trailer brake controller allows the user to customize how aggressively the trailer brakes engage. The default value is "Low" and is the recommended setting for most trailers. If your trailer's brakes require more initial voltage, or if you prefer more aggressive trailer braking, then select either the "Medium" or the "High" setting.
selecting low, med, high will make a big difference. i know this sounds like i'm being a smart a$$, but go thru the information display to see what options are available to you on your truck and if you don't understand then go to the book.
Procedure for Setting Trailer Brake Controller Mode Select the correct option using the information display. Choose electric for trailers with electromagentic drum brakes or EOH for trailers with electric over hydraulic brake systems. See Information Displays (page 108).
Trailer Brake Effort Setting The trailer brake controller allows the user to customize how aggressively the trailer brakes engage. The default value is "Low" and is the recommended setting for most trailers. If your trailer's brakes require more initial voltage, or if you prefer more aggressive trailer braking, then select either the "Medium" or the "High" setting.
selecting low, med, high will make a big difference. i know this sounds like i'm being a smart a$$, but go thru the information display to see what options are available to you on your truck and if you don't understand then go to the book.
And, I don't think you are being smart. You are answering the question that I asked, and I appreciate it.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 4
From: Seattle area
So running the setup is a good idea, especially if you haven't done it with your new truck. But I'll throw another idea on the table... How do you know it's the truck? Have you serviced your trailer's brakes lately?
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Northeast, OK
That's a fair question. But, I don't think the brakes need servicing as they have 102 miles on them from new. It is 34 miles round trip to the marina, and the trailer has made 3 trips since the new hubs and brakes were put on. The first trip was with Rusty towing it, and the controller was able to lock the brakes. The second trip was with Big Blue towing but I didn't test the brakes like I did today. However, since we have a trip to Lake Powell coming up in August I've been checking things out in advance, including the brakes. And I didn't think they did as well today since they wouldn't lock - hence the question.
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From: Isanti, MN
Huh...now that's interesting. I've never heard of conventional electric brakes on a boat trailer. Was always told that was not recommended by any manufacturer because of water getting into the brakes. Thought all boat trailers were EOH. Learn something every day I suppose.
The trailer brake effort setting isn't going to change anything for you. It doesn't change the maximum voltage to the brake circuit, it just changes how fast voltage ramps up as you press the pedal. With the gain to ten you're getting maximum voltage to the circuit, so how aggressively the controller ramps up with the pedal isn't going to affect wheel lockup with the hand brake.
The trailer brake effort setting isn't going to change anything for you. It doesn't change the maximum voltage to the brake circuit, it just changes how fast voltage ramps up as you press the pedal. With the gain to ten you're getting maximum voltage to the circuit, so how aggressively the controller ramps up with the pedal isn't going to affect wheel lockup with the hand brake.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Northeast, OK
We bought the boat a year ago. It is a 2002 Sea Ray 230 that is the same length as today's 25' boats. It is on an aluminum trailer that was made for the boat, and it tows nicely. However, the surge brakes were totally rusted solid. So I did a lot of research and found that many of the new trailers are coming with electric brakes. So, I asked the trailer guy in town about that. (We live near a lake and there's quite a need for trailer service.) Robbie said that about all he sells is electric and he's had few problems with them.
At the time I only put brakes on one axle as that's all the trailer had initially. But, for under $200 I can put them on the other axle, and I think I'll do that before we tow 2000 miles round trip this fall. And especially so if the truck won't give me full braking.
Having said that, I wonder if the Tekonsha Prodigy 3 brake controller on Rusty hits the brakes harder initially, causing them to lock. If that's the case, might running the brake effort setting up on the new truck do the same? I get pretty good braking, but just not quite what I remember from Rusty.
At the time I only put brakes on one axle as that's all the trailer had initially. But, for under $200 I can put them on the other axle, and I think I'll do that before we tow 2000 miles round trip this fall. And especially so if the truck won't give me full braking.
Having said that, I wonder if the Tekonsha Prodigy 3 brake controller on Rusty hits the brakes harder initially, causing them to lock. If that's the case, might running the brake effort setting up on the new truck do the same? I get pretty good braking, but just not quite what I remember from Rusty.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Seattle area
All good thoughts I think. Different truck, different equipment...hard to identify an exact issue. Too many variables in play.
For my own education, is being able to lock up the brakes an effective test? When we bought our last travel trailer (32', 9k lbs) the dealership just said dial it in until it feels like the truck isn't being pushed. Then do a brake check using just the trailer brakes to see if it can slow the truck down (at 5-10mph).
BTW - I'll send reps for testing and thinking about the brakes ahead of time. It's comical (unfortunately) counting the number of trailers on the side of the road on the Friday of a big spring weekend. Too many folks pull their trailer out, de-winterize it (boat, travel trailer, whatever), MAYBE check tire pressure and then haul azz to the weekend fun. Boat trailers are the worst... Nothing like introducing cold water to hot brakes and electrical systems to bust sheeeeet up.
For my own education, is being able to lock up the brakes an effective test? When we bought our last travel trailer (32', 9k lbs) the dealership just said dial it in until it feels like the truck isn't being pushed. Then do a brake check using just the trailer brakes to see if it can slow the truck down (at 5-10mph).
BTW - I'll send reps for testing and thinking about the brakes ahead of time. It's comical (unfortunately) counting the number of trailers on the side of the road on the Friday of a big spring weekend. Too many folks pull their trailer out, de-winterize it (boat, travel trailer, whatever), MAYBE check tire pressure and then haul azz to the weekend fun. Boat trailers are the worst... Nothing like introducing cold water to hot brakes and electrical systems to bust sheeeeet up.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Have you ever adjusted the brakes? I get that they're brand new, but the majority of electric drum brakes aren't self-adjusting like the ones on your truck are. Most manufacturers recommend adjusting the brakes after the first 200 miles, and then every few thousand miles thereafter.
I've never found an electric brake system that I thought was consistent. I've had electric brakes on three different trailers now, and I've always been surprised at how inconsistent they can be. One application and things come to a stop smoothly, but the next stop light they bite harder and lock up. For some reason it seems like most of them grab a bit harder at low speeds than high speeds. Just my impressions, never read any explanation for that.
If the braking performance is adequate and they are in adjustment I wouldn't worry about it. Unfortunately I think you're going to have problems with electric brakes in that application, but hopefully you'll prove me wrong.
I've never found an electric brake system that I thought was consistent. I've had electric brakes on three different trailers now, and I've always been surprised at how inconsistent they can be. One application and things come to a stop smoothly, but the next stop light they bite harder and lock up. For some reason it seems like most of them grab a bit harder at low speeds than high speeds. Just my impressions, never read any explanation for that.
If the braking performance is adequate and they are in adjustment I wouldn't worry about it. Unfortunately I think you're going to have problems with electric brakes in that application, but hopefully you'll prove me wrong.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Northeast, OK
Onug - Thanks for the reps. Lockup and then backing off is what I've always read for testing trailer brakes, so I don't know another way. As for checking things over, I've vowed I'm not going to be that guy on the side of the road. When I got the boat I immediately checked the tire's for manufacturing dates, and they were quite new. Then I replaced the whole lighting system with LED as most of the original one didn't work. Then I checked the brakes and found the master and wheel cylinders to be rusted beyond use, so replaced all that. And, while in there, cleaned and repacked the bearings. Then, when the boat was in the water, I replaced the carpet on the bunks. So, effectively it is a new trailer.
Tom - I adjusted the brakes when I installed them, but haven't since I've put 100 miles on them. So, it is quite possible that they wore-in and now need to be re-adjusted. I'll do that this summer when I put brakes on the other axle, re-check the bearings, lights, tire pressures, etc as I get ready for the big trip. Thanks.
As for inconsistent performance, I've had surge brakes on several trailers, and have have very consistent performance - awful. I always seem to be buying used, and the brakes are as these were, rusted. One the ones I've repaired I got fair performance out of it, as it didn't seem to push the tow vehicle, but backing up was the pits. So, I have high hopes for these electric ones.
Tom - I adjusted the brakes when I installed them, but haven't since I've put 100 miles on them. So, it is quite possible that they wore-in and now need to be re-adjusted. I'll do that this summer when I put brakes on the other axle, re-check the bearings, lights, tire pressures, etc as I get ready for the big trip. Thanks.
As for inconsistent performance, I've had surge brakes on several trailers, and have have very consistent performance - awful. I always seem to be buying used, and the brakes are as these were, rusted. One the ones I've repaired I got fair performance out of it, as it didn't seem to push the tow vehicle, but backing up was the pits. So, I have high hopes for these electric ones.