Someone on here found a spectra radiator at Autozone that is supposed to fit my truck-94 F350 IDIT. I emailed customer service and they had to talk to management. It is copper and brass with four cores. I've had good results with spectra radiators. I went with my local carquest and got a plastic aluminum two core crap. The spectra is pricey but I would rather have the copper and brass. The part number is B1166. What do you guys think?

 

The newer aluminum radiators are supposed to transfer heat better, but I don't think they're as durable.
The copper & brass 4-core is the old school best available. If I needed one, I'd get the Spectra...

 

I'd be VERY interested to see if it truly is a copper / brass 4-row. I looked like crazy for a new radiator in this configuration when I replaced mine, and I could never find one. I even ordered one through either O'Reilly's or AutoZone that said it was brass / copper (3-row, I think). Opened the box in the store and...nope. Aluminum with plastic tanks.

FWIW, and I know this has been debated back and forth for forever and people have had LOTS of different results, I'm running a Champion aluminum radiator with no issues. I started with their 3-row, but when they came out with the 4-row I made the switch. No issues so far, and it stays nice and cool.

Mike

 

I'm trying to copy the link with no luck.

 

I know what it says and what you get are two different things.

 

This is the cheapest I've found. CU1166 is the same as B1166.
These are the wider radiators for our trucks. I found that they came with two different widths.

 

The aluminum Champions that I've seen (with welded aluminum tanks) in photos and on Youtube look like very good quality radiators so if I needed one and decided on aluminum I would consider that one above other aluminum radiators.

I acquired a very good quality copper/brass one from a 1991 F350 parts truck that appeared to be a very recent replacement radiator in that truck. I researched the silk-screened name on it and it was made by an excellent manufacturer in Thailand, subsidiary of a large corporation who make lots of OEM radiators (world-wide) for vehicles, trucks heavy equipment and cooling systems for commercial industrial applications. I'm very confident in that manufacturer. They may still be making these for some supplier. I also found one or two other good quality copper/brass radiators for these trucks when I was studying the radiator issue last Spring. (I spend a lot of time comparing quality of parts because I usually have the time to spend I like to know details)

I have a topic about the radiator I acquired, somewhere here that I will look up later to see if there is any information relevant to you ior others reading this. I recall finding something relating to potential compatibility issue in aluminum radiators with specific coolant "additives" and I mentioned that in a radiator topic or a coolant topic. I think I remember where that was posted in a coolant topic and I can try to find that too. It might have had to do with radiator flush chemicals, I'll confirm that later. I don't think it was related to recommended SCA coolants and additives in them but possibly something added later- I'll just have to find it again and post back.

I think that whoever actually manufactured the radiator for Spectra or the manufacturers of other 'brands' of radiators may make a difference in quality - relating to manufacturing processes etc.. 'Brands' are most often just labels and different brands/labels can be made by the same manufacturer. With batterys I was able to tell who made them in spite of the different labels due to tell-tale differences in the battery case. The battery I selected from O'Riellys/Kragen/Schucks chain - 'extreme duty' or something was the same manufacturer as the good one at NAPA with the NAPA label. Sometimes a private label can request a specific feature or different internal spec in a part which would make the comparisons different but manufacturers are usually smart enough to make that difference detectable from the outside.

Back to radiators: Maybe there is not much difference in quality from different mfrs but in these days of price competition and parts dealers/private labels seeking the least expensive manufacturers/suppliers, I like to find out who actually manufactured the products to compare the manufacturers for quality. The manufacturing/testing processes and quality control is where I think the differences would be in radiators and mfrs with modern high tech processes/test equipment and QC procedures may be better assurance of quality than mfrs with older equipment and processes.

For some reason I like to dig in to finest of details an practically everything, even down to the materials science. It's probably a mental disorder and I'm the first to recognize and admit that but also with what very little income I have and wanting the best possible parts I want to make the best possible decisions on what I buy.

Hopefully, what I wrote might be useful to someone. That being said, does anyone know who actually manufactures 'Spectra' brand copper/brass radiators and possibly where those facilities are located? I could search that out later but don't have the the time now.

 

Not sure who actually manufacturers them. Just now that I'm tired of the plastic aluminum crap. I know that it's more money, which I really don't have, but I'd rather spend more now than much more later because of a premature failure. The one that I have now causes my engine to run hotter than I want it too when I pull my camper.

 

I understand. Better quality at higher cost is the better choice even if you have to sacrifice spending somewhere else to do it. I'm often in that situation and I tend to always go for the better quality higher cost even if I have to save money and wait. The way I save money is not going out the front door and staying home. Otherwise going anywhere is almost always going to result in spending money. Consumerism wants you to buy everything you can see, whether you need it or not doesn't matter. Just keep the blindfolds on and stay home!

Spectra Premium Industries: Located in 3 Canadian provinces, Quebec, Ontario and Nova Scotia. Started in 1989 manufacturing steel fuel tanks. Acquired 7 radiator companies in 1998 from the Provinces I listed.

Looks like a very good, progressive, well managed and successful company, with lots of expansion. Here is a link to their Overview page and company history:

Spectra Premium Industries | Company Overview

In 2001 they began making heavy duty 'industrial truck radiators' for classes 6,7 and 8 trucks but the info doesn't specify if those are US or Canada classes/ratings, Ontario uses the same as US but most other Provinces use their own classification systems. Quebec, where their gigantic headquarters and main warehouse is located doesn't use the US truck-classfications system. Class 8 in the USA would cover tractor trailer combinations. Whatever they meant by class 8, I trust that they are big radiators.

I've looked at 3 of their 7 radiator company locations- google maps, satelite view and street view.

From the limited information I've gathered, my opinion is that they are not the most high tech radiator manufacturing facilities in the world (yet) and they don't brag about that but they don't need to be state of the art high tech to make high quality copper/brass radiators. I think the company is very well managed with good quality control or they would not be advancing and expanding so rapidly as they are.

I would trust their copper/brass radiators because at least some (if not most) of the 7 radiator companies that they acquired have been making copper/brass radiators for a long time. Long before Spectra came into existence. Spectra also makes Aluminum/plastic tank radiators which is a different and newer technology. I might trust those for replacements in smaller gas vehicles up to V-6s, - where lots of those vehicles came from the factories with Aluminum/Plastic-tank radiators as Original Equipment. I won't trust them in a V-8 diesel until they have proven performance. When large-truck manufacturers start using them as OEM radiators, then I will.

They are beginning to capture what appears to be a big market share for radiators in the USA and they should know that good quality is very very important! So, I would expect that quality to already be there for their Copper/Brass radiators due to what I said above. If they are supplying Aluminum/Plastic replacement radiators for these diesels and they are not lasting, then they had better go back to the drawing board and get it right before they market them as good replacements.

Bottom line: At this point, from what I have learned after a few hours of searching the web for info on their radiator facilities, I would trust their copper/brass radiators for good quality replacements.

They may not have the latest high tech manufacturing equipment and environments (or they would be showing it off) but again the companies they have acquired apparently have been making these radiators for a long time with proven methods. From what I looked at I would have to guess-ti-mate that some of those facilities have been making copper/brass radiators for 50 years or longer so they must have well proven methods. That is one reason I would trust them and the other is that their management seems very good. I don't think they would have accomplished that much success by cutting corners on quality and I hope I am not wrong about that.

Of course most big manufacturers have to make "budget" lower cost products which can be of lesser quality in order to compete for that market.

I just noticed on their history page: 1,700 employees related to the manufacturing (and possibly the distribution) of radiators. How much if that is actual manufacturing of the copper/brass radiators I don't know - it doesn't really matter, I trust that people building the copper/brass know what they are doing.

Sorry this post was so long (up too late typing too much again).

I think your truck will drive a lot nicer with a good radiator, especially with a camper or trailer.

 

I currently have a plastic aluminum in my toyota four cylinder truck. Has performed well for over three years. Like you said, doesn't work well in my ford. I've also heard about the plastic tanks rupturing in bigger vehicles.

 

I can tell you that Champion products would appear to be somewhat questionable in quality. Other members have had problems with leakage less than a year after installing. I personally bought an American Eagle rad for my truck, basically a two row Champion, and it started leaking less than three months later. It leaks in multiple locations to the point where you can smell coolant when you get out of the truck and I have to fill the overflow back up every few months. At this point I'm not worried about a critical failure so I haven't bothered to pull it and do anything with it.


Having said that even the two row has no problem keeping the truck cool. The temp typically stays below 200f unless I'm really working it in the mountains or poking around in 4lo, the fan will kick in at about 220f and the temp will drop right back down.


Out of curiosity I did a quick google search and found these:


http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts/ne...PDRA44055.aspx#
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...view/make/ford


I do believe that the shorter wider ones don't fit our trucks though? I know mine was the taller, narrower, style radiator. The one website has the tall, narrow, but it's aluminum and plastic.

 

Interesting! I assume yours has aluminum tanks? Have you spotted exactly where it is leaking? Is it leaking where the tubes in the core are joined to the tanks? I would assume that these are furnace brazed and if so the brazing material might be cracking due to fatigue stresses from vibrations, or something similar.

If the tubes themselves are leaking then I suspect they are either too thin for the application or the designers selected an aluminum/alloy that was easy for manufacturing purposes but not suitable for this application. My first guess would be that they selected the same alloys used in refrigeration evaporator coils or condensers which hold up in those applications and hold up in the smaller vehicle radiator cores but not in these diesels.

If the heat exchangers in the bottom tank (for automatic transmissions) begin to leak that would be a bigger problem.

Maybe there just wasn't an aluminum alloy made that is suitable for for these cores and aluminum refineries/manufacturers will have to develop an alloy that will hold up in this application.

It might be due to thermal expansion and contraction of aluminum which might be more than copper brass at these operating temperatures- I think that's true I'd have to look it up. There are lots of different aluminum alloys to enhance various properties (I used to know most of them and had books that described all of the aluminum alloys).

I haven't yet gone back to find that possible 'issue' with additives that I mentioned in a previous post (been very busy) but I'll try to do that tonight.

Over-all it might be in the manufacturing processes being used.
Spectra Premium has not made OEM aluminum radiators and I don't know if Champion has made OEM but with the TIG welded tanks that I saw I doubt it. (possibly those are actually wire welded and automated).

In any case it seems that some good engineers/designers and probably metallurgists need to get to the drawing board and design an aluminum radiator that really works, using rigorous testing procedures that match real time use conditions, not just simply testing for leaks and calling it good.

Just because a person has an engineering degree certainly does not mean that the person is competent to design an aluminum radiator that will work and most are not competent to do that- they'll just slop together components based on current knowledge from existing applications. Design engineers a little bit better qualified, and then there are the handful in each group who really excel and actually are competent to produce really good design and manufacturing processes!

I write too much.
I'm not an engineer but have equivalent education and then considerably more. I seriously considered an ME degree but didn't think it would be much fun working with engineering math all the time. I just like to think and solve problems.

Defective design and fabrication methods of these aluminum radiators should have been discovered through rigorous testing procedures and apparently that was/is not done.

Copper/Brass radiators however have long time proven performance history. Aluminum radiators are quite recent and I think that was mainly a response to high prices of copper, and to compete in the aftermarket for low priced radiators.

Whatever it is: It is what it is and I won't want an aluminum radiator until they can design one that proves to last in these applications.

I'll look for that compatibility question later - tonight

 

A couple of the welds are weeping, although it would appear that most of the leakage is coming from where the tubes meet the tank. One of the lifting ears on the top had a crack through the weld right out of the box, I checked it over and didn't see anything else but that didn't fill me with confidence. Aesthetically the welds don't look that bad, but being a welder I can tell you that looks aren't everything. I have seen some very nice welds fail and some very ugly welds pass.

Aluminum is used for things far more demanding, look at the aerospace industry, everyday with no issues. In the case of these radiators it would appear to be a case of poor materials and workmanship. In my case I'll call it a lesson learned, there is a reason that the radiator was as cheap as it was.