Hi Guys, I'm new to the site! but not new to owning navigators. (I have owned a 2000 navi for 10 years that now has 162,000 miles and runs great) I just picked up a used 2003 Navigator with 5.4 32v intech engine with 180,000 miles...I picked this up at an auction for $3,500 yesterday...( yea, regretting it about right now!!) Well the issue i'm having is it is clacking, ticking? It does it at "cold" start up and after its "warm" "hot" both. It speeds up and slows down with engine revolution but does get very faint when the rpm's get above like 1,500....I looked at it a little after work today for about 30 min. exhaust manifolds appear to be good with no warpage or leaks. You can hear it when under it, from the top side and in the fender well. Seems to be a little louder from passenger side. I know what a rod knock sounds like, and this does not really sound like a rod knock (if it is a rod knock it is just the very beginning of one possibly) The engine idles a little rough but has great power and does not surge or studder runs great other than the noise? ( Idle issue might just be a fouled plug or bad coil pack?)
I thought I would just drop the oil pan and check my rods to crank for any play but then I scoped out the cross member ( in the dark with a ****ty flashlight) and It does not appear to unbolt at a quick glance!!

1. So does the engine have to be pulled or possibly jacked up to remove oil pan?
2. Correct me if i'm wrong, but this 5.4 4v intech engine does not appear to have the VCT solenoids on the valve covers? like the 3v engines ( Maybe this is the issue if equipped with them?)

Anyway, If anyone has heard of or dealt with this before or has any advice to point me in the right direction I'm all ears!! I'm not new to turning a wrench and have worked on all my cars and trucks for over 20 years...
I might try to take a short video clip of it running if I can figure out how to go about loading it ( kinda old school here, not to tech savvy.)
Thanks in advance for any help guys

 

Sounds like you need to replace the timing components. If you find broken chain guides, you MUST remove the oil pan as well to make sure there's no pieces in it. Many has experienced blocked oil pickup tube and loss of oil pressure due to this before, so not worth taking any chances.

The 4v engines have a very similar cam phaser timing system as the 3v engines, but they add a second pair of cams and timing chains and tensioners. You can tell if it's the timing chain or phasers making the knocking noise if the sound is coming from the front of the engine. Use a mechanic stethoscope to listen for the noise.

 

Are all 8 manifold mounting bolts intact on each side, especially the back two? What you are describing sounds like an exhaust tick.

 

No cam phasers on the DOHC Intech.
I'd go with alloro's suggestion. Have someone hold a rag against the tailpipe just enough to increase the backpressure to see if that exaggerates the sound.
Also consider a loose lifter.

 

Thanks for the reply's so far guys! Just an update. I did have a little time after work today to look at the navi in the daylight...Here is the update..Definitely not an exhaust leak!! I jacked up the front end and put her on jack stands. pulled the front tires off. I also pulled the passenger inner fender wheel plastic off ( man you talk about hide the passenger side manifold.) "alloro" All the studs and nuts are on both sides of the manifolds. There is not even any black carbon build-up around the ports/gasket that would tell me there is a leak. I also did as you suggested "pdgford" and used a rag for back pressure to no avail, no change....The noise is definitely coming from the front passenger side of the engine! I do not have a stethoscope but I used a piece of hose to prod around and was kinda hard to tell but was definitely coming from the front and seemed to be more towards the top of engine. but not for sure?

The good news is that the cross-member that runs under the oil pan does in fact unbolt, so oil pan removal will be a breeze if I need to check rods...

pdgford > I think you might be onto something with the lifter comment...That is kinda what it sounds like..like a bent pick-up tube or loose rocker arm or something like that ( on a old school motor).... How would I verify this? Im not to familiar with the overhead cams, would I pull the valve covers to check or pull the head? Would I pull the valve cover and let it run to check for bad lifter?
Guess its time to get a chilton book for it too!!

Thanks again for any ideas and advice to get me pointed in the right direction guys!!

 

Ok, was only the Mustang that had phasers on a 4v engine.

It still has tensioners and such which may fail, hard to know from the described sound but if it sounds like a chain slapping around then it may be timing. It has two sets of tensioners, the second set is for the short chains at the front of each valve cover, so might be that. It may also be a lifter issue. Without hearing the sound, it's very hard to say anything definitive. Diagnosing it further might involve taking off the valve cover. Just make sure you pinpoint the sounds location first

 

I Havent had time to mess with the new navi much because of work, other than I noticed that When you first start it up it has a squeal like a bad belt pulley tensioner, but it takes a bout 10-15 seconds before the noise I'm describing in my post starts!! Which makes makes me think it is not a bad rod bearing!!( as I would think it would make the noise from the very beginning of cranking it up.) Im starting to lean more towards a timing chain, timing tensioner issue!
But I guess the only way to be 100% for sure is to just start digging in to the motor to find out...I think I will pull the oil pan first as that is the fastest thing to check first as far as rod bearings, crank, piston bearings go!! then I think I will start tearing into the valve covers after that to check timing, heads!!
But if anyone has a better suggestion just let me know?
Either way I will let all know what I come up with if it will help anyone??
I hate it when someone comes in on forums with issues and then never comes back to follow up with the solutions / answers of the fix!!!
So I will keep everyone posted as I have time to dig into the issue!!!

From what I have read online, The passenger head cannot be pulled with the engine in truck/ Anyone know if this is a fact? Do I have to pull engine to remove the passenger side head??
Thanks!!!

 

Squeal at startup then ticking/knocking after? Have you checked your idler pulleys and belt tensioner pulley? Or any thing that is driven by the serpentine belt?

Better yet, when the engine is cold, remove the serp belt and start the engine. Listen for the noise. Just don't leave it running for more than 15-20 second or so as the water pump will not be running in this case.

 

Brilliant Suggestion! And I did just that, and It did have a bad pulley ( the groved plastic one) And the tensioner has a dry bearing so I will be changing it to....But unfortunately that was unrelated to the other noise Im hearing and refering to... but without the noise of the bad pulley bearing I was able to pinpoint the noise's location much better...Definitely not a bad rod bearing! So thats great news!! Im starting to think its the timing chain components...If not it will be an Issue in the head...So hopefully its just timing chain tensioner or guide issue..I do not have to work tomorrow ( Sunday) so unless the wife makes me go somewhere I will be tearing into it...I will keep all posted..Thanks for the Help

 

Just an Update! I did get to work half a day on the Navi last Sunday. I got the fan shroud, Fan & Fan clutch, all tensioners & Harmonic Balencer pulled...Next time I get to work on it it will be the valve covers, power steering pump, then I will be ready to pull the timing cover I think...I will keep posting when I get things done, as I have time to work on it...Thanks..

 

Well I got to work about 3 hrs on the navi today after work and I started to remove the valve covers. I started with the passenger side as that is where the most of the noise is coming from and has the most CRAP in the way to remove before getting to them!! I finally got everything disassembled and removed out of the way. I removed the coils and harness out of the way also...Well I cant for the life of me get the dang thing off!! There are 2 A/C lines that run the firewall and into the cab ( it appears anyway ) that the cover just will not clear for nothing.

Do I have to remove those lines to get the passenger cover off??

Well I got frustrated with the passenger side and moved on to the drivers side..
Fairly easy side and I got the hoses, harness, sensor, etc out of the way pretty quick..
Just to get to the back of the cover and find a metal pipe that runs down to the exhaust and right over the valve cover ( Like some sick sadistic prank from the engineers at ford / Lincoln!! )

Do I have to remove this pipe to get drivers cover off??

I was able to pull the passenger cover up enough to kinda check the timing chain out a little...And there is a LOT of slack on the chain on the bottom side of it!! But I do not know if this is normal or not?? Because ( facing the motor ) the crank turns clockwise so it would also kinda make sense to me that the chain would be tight on the top side and any slack would ride on the bottom of the chain on passenger side?? And common sense tells me it would be the opposite on the drivers side ( slack at top on drivers side and tight on bottom side?) But it sure seems like "to much slack"... Because shouldn't the tensioner keep it sorta tight even on the slack side of the chain???

I think I will go ahead and in the morning start by removing few oil pan to bottom front cover off and pulling the front cover since I almost have it ready to pull anyway!!
Hopefully it is just a tensioner or guide issue so that I do not even have to pull the valve covers off...I just wanted to, to check the condition of cams, journals, etc under there...

If someone has dug into one of these before and Im missing something or you know the answers to my questions above? any heads up or advice would be way cool of you!!
Thanks....

 

Here are the factory steps to remove each of the valve covers.

 

Hi guys! Well I just spent 4 more hrs working on the navi...I finally got the timing cover off! (The power steering pump was a real PITA to remove)....I think I may have found the issue though...I will try to attach some pictures to this reply... I found like 4 pieces of the guides plastic pieces from the passenger side once I got the cover off!! Also, It was very obvious from the rub marks on the timing cover that the guide on that side was not right... 3rd thing I found Is the tensioner shaft on the passenger side is not putting any pressure on the guide, like the shaft is frozen-up on that tensioner because I can pull up on the black guide and there is no tension on the guide rail from it...The other thing is the back side of the timing cover (passenger side) is dark brown where as the drivers side is clean and a lot better looking!
Does this area inside the timing cover get lubrication from the engine oil?? If so? you can tell it has not seen any oil for a long time!!! It was very dry inside there!! I will try to attach pics for all to see....Thanks...

 

Here is the back side of timing cover! with what appears to be rub marks!! you can also see the difference in color from passenger to drivers side!!

 

This is the tensioner that will not move! and the black guide can be picked up from it about 1/2" - 3/4" of a inch of air between them!! it is also much looser than the other side with a lot of movement from front to back!!