302 - Performance Driveability
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 5
From: Northeast Ohio USA
Hey, Don, have you looked at/tried a spacer between the carby and air cleaner? I have no idea if those might help but thought I'd throw it out there.
My own air cleaner assembly is from a '70s sedan - Country Squire or Torino or some such - and is substantially different than what they used on the '80s trucks, in fact it's probably larger in diameter. But it's Old Ford Blue in color and reminds me of my 1970 Mustang's Wheezer and that's why I like it (PO of my truck had installed one of those chrome things the kids like, I learned as a kid (when I installed one on the Mustang) they're fine for summertime use but are absolutely worthless and suck ***** for wintertime use).
My own air cleaner assembly is from a '70s sedan - Country Squire or Torino or some such - and is substantially different than what they used on the '80s trucks, in fact it's probably larger in diameter. But it's Old Ford Blue in color and reminds me of my 1970 Mustang's Wheezer and that's why I like it (PO of my truck had installed one of those chrome things the kids like, I learned as a kid (when I installed one on the Mustang) they're fine for summertime use but are absolutely worthless and suck ***** for wintertime use).
The BMV and My Insurance Companies where very happy at the time ! As they are now,lol. Condition and height of the Cleaner/Breather are no sweat...I have the clearance and I am more than wiling to restore/modify the implement to fit the bill.
It may suck ***** in the winter to quote...lol, but I will compensate with a manual choke and block heater...rest assured.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 63
I recently replaced my distributor with a NAPA brand rebuild. 1,400 miles later the vacuum advance can diapham failed. Fortunately I kept my original 28 year old vac advance, swapped it out, good to go.
They don't make things like they used to.
Speaking of which,
My old coil definitely went bad so I bought a new Standard brand coil. Wow, what a difference! It started and ran so much better it made me realize the old coil had been getting weaker for a while before it failed completely.
However, the Standard brand coil didn't last a week before it was cutting out and finally left me on the side of the freeway. Fortunately I had a junkyard spare. Slapped it in, hit the key, and motored home. Got a NAPA coil in there now.
They don't make things like they used to.
Speaking of which,
My old coil definitely went bad so I bought a new Standard brand coil. Wow, what a difference! It started and ran so much better it made me realize the old coil had been getting weaker for a while before it failed completely.
However, the Standard brand coil didn't last a week before it was cutting out and finally left me on the side of the freeway. Fortunately I had a junkyard spare. Slapped it in, hit the key, and motored home. Got a NAPA coil in there now.
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,362
Likes: 22
From: Florence, SC
You may eliminate some wiring by switching to the HEI, but that has to be the UGLIEST monstrosity of a distributor I have ever seen. At least in a GM it is hidden in the back. On Fords it will be right up front and that HUGE GM-style ignition will become the centerpiece of your whole engine.
It's just my opinion but, why would anyone struggle with the DSII and all of it's inherent, well known issues when there is proven technology that succeeds it with proven results ? Don't get me wrong....if this is a restoration, then by all means, take it back to FoMoCo specs....but if not....you know the rest.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
I like to know as well cause this truck has never left me stranded and the truck just keeps going and going. Now performance issues did crop up which was the replacement of the dist and I think I will just replace the spark plugs vs trying to clean them. Just more time involved wire brushing each plug and checking the gap on each plug vs just buying new setting the gap and installing.
I also think I need to get a new spark plug wire set, I put grease on all the terminals but one terminal just after cylinder #1 on the cap had white corrosion and none of the others did.
I also think I need to get a new spark plug wire set, I put grease on all the terminals but one terminal just after cylinder #1 on the cap had white corrosion and none of the others did.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 5
From: Northeast Ohio USA
After looking at a few forums other than this one concerning this (oh, the shame of it all), it seems as though Chris is on the right path.
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
I have seen it described here by a well-respected and extremely knowledgeable guy who is no longer around (81-F-150-Explorer) but trying to use a search engine to find where he said that is too time-consuming.
So I posted what I can find in the books; just about everything I say out here I can back up with some sort of credible and authoritative, official documentation; none of this "I have been told" or "My brother's ex-girlfriend's brother told me" hearsay **** that may or may not be accurate or correct or true....
So I posted what I can find in the books; just about everything I say out here I can back up with some sort of credible and authoritative, official documentation; none of this "I have been told" or "My brother's ex-girlfriend's brother told me" hearsay **** that may or may not be accurate or correct or true....
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
That's what I figured, based off the position of the second vacuum tube it would have to retard so I am figuring advance is full time manifold vacuum and the second retard feature is ported vacuum so as you apply throttle the advance is retarded some.
I don't know the purpose of this other than maybe emissions as more advance to a extent gets you better power and gas economy as the engine runs more efficient.
I don't know the purpose of this other than maybe emissions as more advance to a extent gets you better power and gas economy as the engine runs more efficient.
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
I don't remember for certain what Ralph had explained, but I seem to recall something about anti-backfiring on deceleration and I think it was somehow involved in the system that advances the timing at idle when the engine is running warm in order to make it run faster (thereby drawing more air through the radiator and helping cool it).
But the installation & configuration of this kind of thing was dependent on engine size, Calibration Code and maybe which transmission was installed (which could all be related to GVWR but I don't remember).
There was originally installed a sticker on the radiator support generally right in the center near the latch mechanism that had a vacuum hose routing diagram that would explain how it came out of the factory.
Glancing through the book (1981 Engine/Emissions Diagnosis), Ford had all sorts of vacuum-operated doodads in place that would, for example, retard the timing for cold starts (this is in addition to what the DS2 module does)... it's really amazing what the engineers accomplished using only vacuum and temperature....
But the installation & configuration of this kind of thing was dependent on engine size, Calibration Code and maybe which transmission was installed (which could all be related to GVWR but I don't remember).
There was originally installed a sticker on the radiator support generally right in the center near the latch mechanism that had a vacuum hose routing diagram that would explain how it came out of the factory.
Glancing through the book (1981 Engine/Emissions Diagnosis), Ford had all sorts of vacuum-operated doodads in place that would, for example, retard the timing for cold starts (this is in addition to what the DS2 module does)... it's really amazing what the engineers accomplished using only vacuum and temperature....
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
I have the emission decal still I can check it but I just installed a single vacuum advance unit. Runs a hell of a lot better. Just has a slight roughness at idle probably the plugs need to be cleaned again. Another thing is I have a lot more pop in my exhaust when reving in netural might need to disconnect the air pump as its useless now without converters. But I believe it is doing it now is cause I am running more initial timing, 11* to be exact. Before I was running 8* as the emission decal stated.
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
Timing too far advanced would be my first thought, too, especially when combined with full manifold vacuum at the distributor.
It sounds like you just replaced the entire distributor instead of just the vacuum advance unit... OK, but in either case, I would adjust the timing to the 8° the old one was at and see how it behaves there... change one thing at a time, makes it easier to determine what change caused what reaction.
I doubt the AIR pump has any effect on anything at this point, their purpose in life is to provide air for the catalytic converters to finish burning the fuel.
It sounds like you just replaced the entire distributor instead of just the vacuum advance unit... OK, but in either case, I would adjust the timing to the 8° the old one was at and see how it behaves there... change one thing at a time, makes it easier to determine what change caused what reaction.
I doubt the AIR pump has any effect on anything at this point, their purpose in life is to provide air for the catalytic converters to finish burning the fuel.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
It is timing related, but its a lean condition in the exhaust that's why my manifold collectors are 600* when they should be around 300*. Its the air pump causing this by pumping air into the exhaust.
Since I do not have a converter the air pump serves no purpose now but the popping in the exhaust I don't mind cause it doesn't do it while driving, it only does it at high rpm when you cut the throttle quickly and if you rev the engine while it is idling in neutral or park. It most likely is an advance issue but the dist is not advanced too far because the starter does not drag during hot restarts so I will leave it here.
I also did replace the whole dist, since the pick up coil was being rubbed by the reluctor the cost of the two wouldn't have saved me but a few bucks over this carquest new dist I got that has a limited life time warranty. I don't know why they say limited, it is a life time warranty.
My shocks from AutoZone said limited life time warranty I took them in when I did my I beam bushings they were over 10 years old and they still warrantied them out.
Since I do not have a converter the air pump serves no purpose now but the popping in the exhaust I don't mind cause it doesn't do it while driving, it only does it at high rpm when you cut the throttle quickly and if you rev the engine while it is idling in neutral or park. It most likely is an advance issue but the dist is not advanced too far because the starter does not drag during hot restarts so I will leave it here.
I also did replace the whole dist, since the pick up coil was being rubbed by the reluctor the cost of the two wouldn't have saved me but a few bucks over this carquest new dist I got that has a limited life time warranty. I don't know why they say limited, it is a life time warranty.
My shocks from AutoZone said limited life time warranty I took them in when I did my I beam bushings they were over 10 years old and they still warrantied them out.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 215
Likes: 4
From: Buffalo,Tx.
Was reading your post and you having to run to Conroe caught my eye.
l used to live in Pasadena and moved up to Buffalo. Above Huntsville.
I have an 85 302 that I just did the DS2 swap on.
Gave it a test run yesterday and had to come back and readjust the AOD linkage.
Gave it another test run and stopped at DQ and idled for about 10 minutes or so
and when leaving and on way home mine was doing the same thing as yours.
Cutting out, jerking, acting if key had been turned off.
If you barely gave it gas it seemed to run right.
Was only about a 5 mile trip.
An interesting point.
Mine also did this every once in awhile before I did the DS 2 swap.
Hasn't been long since I changed the ignition switch down on the steering column.
Has got to be voodoo or something.....
When I do any wiring I always solder and use heat shrink tubing.
Wish the sealing type heat shrink tubing was easier to find....
Good luck at finding your problem.
If I find anything I will let you know.
l used to live in Pasadena and moved up to Buffalo. Above Huntsville.
I have an 85 302 that I just did the DS2 swap on.
Gave it a test run yesterday and had to come back and readjust the AOD linkage.
Gave it another test run and stopped at DQ and idled for about 10 minutes or so
and when leaving and on way home mine was doing the same thing as yours.
Cutting out, jerking, acting if key had been turned off.
If you barely gave it gas it seemed to run right.
Was only about a 5 mile trip.
An interesting point.
Mine also did this every once in awhile before I did the DS 2 swap.
Hasn't been long since I changed the ignition switch down on the steering column.
Has got to be voodoo or something.....
When I do any wiring I always solder and use heat shrink tubing.
Wish the sealing type heat shrink tubing was easier to find....
Good luck at finding your problem.
If I find anything I will let you know.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 215
Likes: 4
From: Buffalo,Tx.
Here is something I just found on the Crown Victoria site.
I copied and will paste:
The problem you have happening is caused a lot of times by arcing of the spark plug wires.
There was a service bulletin put out by Ford for this same problem with stumbling an bucking.
The remedy was placement of the #4 and #8 spark plug wires.
#4 needs to be isolated by going from the spark plug to around the rear of the valve cover and have the wire sit on the valve cover ledge on the intake manifold side.
#8 wire on the driver side is routed the same way. Try this and it should cure the problem.
I had the same problem as you in the past and that is what I did.
I guess I will try as this nothing to loose.
Side problem...
My computer or ????
When typing it slows down and sipetters
When typing it slows down and skips letters.
You have to watch as yype you type to.......
I copied and will paste:
The problem you have happening is caused a lot of times by arcing of the spark plug wires.
There was a service bulletin put out by Ford for this same problem with stumbling an bucking.
The remedy was placement of the #4 and #8 spark plug wires.
#4 needs to be isolated by going from the spark plug to around the rear of the valve cover and have the wire sit on the valve cover ledge on the intake manifold side.
#8 wire on the driver side is routed the same way. Try this and it should cure the problem.
I had the same problem as you in the past and that is what I did.
I guess I will try as this nothing to loose.
Side problem...
My computer or ????
When typing it slows down and sipetters
When typing it slows down and skips letters.
You have to watch as yype you type to.......