DPF Engine Killer???
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DPF Engine Killer???
Hello, I'm new to forum. I run a Banks IQ tuner (only) and was considering doing a DPF-EGR delete. Friends at work swear by it in regards to improving mileage and HP. My biggest concern is engine life. I've had many older diesels go many miles without an overhaul but the DPF regen on my 6.4 concerns me. We pay more up-front for diesel engines in return for things like economy, power and longevity and was wondering if anybody had any input on deleting or not to increase the life of the engine.
Thx,
Tony
'08 -250 XLT
Banks IQ
Thx,
Tony
'08 -250 XLT
Banks IQ
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14,266
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folks have removed their DPF's and done EGR deletes and reported no increase in power or MPG.
an engine that DPF's a lot has combustion problems and rather than removing the DPF, decarb the engine with a engine fuel additive, make sure the oil is clean and/or install an oil bypass filter which will remove a lot of the soot and reduce particles in the emmissions. the egr failures are driven by clogged coolant systems which can be mitigated by installing a coolant bypass filter. related is the need to add the ford coolant additive.
an engine that DPF's a lot has combustion problems and rather than removing the DPF, decarb the engine with a engine fuel additive, make sure the oil is clean and/or install an oil bypass filter which will remove a lot of the soot and reduce particles in the emmissions. the egr failures are driven by clogged coolant systems which can be mitigated by installing a coolant bypass filter. related is the need to add the ford coolant additive.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Cottage Grove
WHAT!!! lol are you freaking kidding me speak...
Here is the deal with the dpf and regen process. Have you ever looked at a healthy 100k mile 6.4s blow by? You wan't to know why the rings on these things wear so fast? Its because of oil dilution from the regen process. Fuel gets into the oil and wreaks havok. It also screws over the rocker arms even more than they already are thus increasing lifter failure.
The 6.4 does NOT suffer the same egr issues as the 6.0. The 6.0 pulled coolant AFTER the oil cooler so if the oil cooler was clogged it didn't get flow. The 6.4 pulls it before it gets to the cooler... This means that egr cooler issues aren't related to the oil cooler. The oil cooler is still an issue, but not near to the extent that it was on the 6.0.
Short of tearing down a 6.4 and rebuilding it with HD de-lipped pistons and a ground/hardened cam deleting is the best thing you can do for the truck. Literally the only good thing that comes from the regen process is that it keeps the turbo clean... Everything else kills the motor.
Here is the deal with the dpf and regen process. Have you ever looked at a healthy 100k mile 6.4s blow by? You wan't to know why the rings on these things wear so fast? Its because of oil dilution from the regen process. Fuel gets into the oil and wreaks havok. It also screws over the rocker arms even more than they already are thus increasing lifter failure.
The 6.4 does NOT suffer the same egr issues as the 6.0. The 6.0 pulled coolant AFTER the oil cooler so if the oil cooler was clogged it didn't get flow. The 6.4 pulls it before it gets to the cooler... This means that egr cooler issues aren't related to the oil cooler. The oil cooler is still an issue, but not near to the extent that it was on the 6.0.
Short of tearing down a 6.4 and rebuilding it with HD de-lipped pistons and a ground/hardened cam deleting is the best thing you can do for the truck. Literally the only good thing that comes from the regen process is that it keeps the turbo clean... Everything else kills the motor.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2015
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From: Boise
X2^^ The emissions related equipment causes most of the problems on the newer diesel engines. You have to get a tuner once deleted, but you will add horsepower and your mpgs definitely will go up.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Frederick, MD
I ran a 6.4 for 86K miles with the DPF on. My fuel dilution was usually around <.5%.
I ran a banks 6 gun with the IQ and always towed in Stock power.
lifetime mpgs were 11.5. I could get over 17 on the hwy empty.
Most that deleted really didn't see that much of a difference. I had 3.73 gears in mine.
I ran a banks 6 gun with the IQ and always towed in Stock power.
lifetime mpgs were 11.5. I could get over 17 on the hwy empty.
Most that deleted really didn't see that much of a difference. I had 3.73 gears in mine.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 394
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From: Cottage Grove
Did you go the blackstone route to check your fuel dilution or was that based off of measuring the amount of oil you got out?
Stock for 18k miles I was seeing 13.2 and I am running at 15.8 deleted with a 215hp tune right now... If I back it off to a 40hp tow tune I get right at 14mpg. All hand calculated over the last 30k miles.
A 6.4 was never designed for fuel economy unfortunately. Most people that manage high millage numbers are going off of the dash readout. And ANY time you tune the truck it throws that calculation WAY off. On a 300+ mile highway run empty I can see 17ish and my dash will read 22mpg. Remember though that a 6.4 gets all of its power higher up in the rpm band. It isn't much different than the 7.3 or 6.0 as far as when you get power. That means you are burning more fuel to get moving...
But saying that people don't see much difference is kinda misleading. The 6.7 guys really don't notice anything other than power, but you will definitely see gains on a 6.4. If you run stock power however you will only see the gains from no regen. Its the 150+hp tunes that really start seeing 1 or 2 mpg difference.
Stock for 18k miles I was seeing 13.2 and I am running at 15.8 deleted with a 215hp tune right now... If I back it off to a 40hp tow tune I get right at 14mpg. All hand calculated over the last 30k miles.
A 6.4 was never designed for fuel economy unfortunately. Most people that manage high millage numbers are going off of the dash readout. And ANY time you tune the truck it throws that calculation WAY off. On a 300+ mile highway run empty I can see 17ish and my dash will read 22mpg. Remember though that a 6.4 gets all of its power higher up in the rpm band. It isn't much different than the 7.3 or 6.0 as far as when you get power. That means you are burning more fuel to get moving...
But saying that people don't see much difference is kinda misleading. The 6.7 guys really don't notice anything other than power, but you will definitely see gains on a 6.4. If you run stock power however you will only see the gains from no regen. Its the 150+hp tunes that really start seeing 1 or 2 mpg difference.
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From: Frederick, MD
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Cottage Grove
That's actually pretty good, I am impressed. That means very little idle time and a whole lot of freeway driving.
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From: Frederick, MD
Well, my use was a lot of hwy/interstate/cross country towing.
I would have to go back and pull the last blackstone report at home but I had an average of around 40 mph by the miles vs hours.
Towing cross country heavy I would regen around 130-150 miles towing 15-16K and still no real fuel in the oil.
I miss that truck.
I would have to go back and pull the last blackstone report at home but I had an average of around 40 mph by the miles vs hours.
Towing cross country heavy I would regen around 130-150 miles towing 15-16K and still no real fuel in the oil.
I miss that truck.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 394
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From: Cottage Grove
The cooling system changes they made from the 6.4 to the 6.7 (not to mention the fact that its a completely redesigned motor) really make a difference in how the truck handles the heat from regen and egr.
It is impressive to say the least.
It is impressive to say the least.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Frederick, MD
I always thought the cooling was better on the 6.4. Yes the engine bay is hotter, I could be the fenders almost blistering hot on a 6.4 but never got past about 235F on the coolant temp. Guage never went more that right of center.
My 6.7 I will get that all the to 3/4 sometimes.
My 6.7 I will get that all the to 3/4 sometimes.