I am using 93, but I just saw the manual say 87+. I am not starting a fuel war, but my 04 Navi has to use 91+. I don't see how this much more powerful engine uses a lower octane fuel?

 

Because the new EcoBoost it is designed to accept lower octane fuel. Ford consciously designed the EB to be used in volume in Ford pickups and other vehicles that are used as work trucks and fleet vehicles, and have drivers who would put in the cheapest gas possible. Otherwise they would have a LOT of blown up EB engines and unhappy customers.

Premium engines like the 4 valve 5.4 in Lincoln cars and trucks were traditionally designed to use premium fuel like virtually every engine in every BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, and other premium brand vehicle. The assumption was always that if you bought a premium brand car that you would EXPECT to be able to afford premium fuel. A Lincoln is a luxury vehicle you drive to show off your status where Fords are built for people who use trucks... These days they don't sell enough Lincolns to design special engine tunes for them, and the EB has plenty of power in its regular tune. The Ford GT will get an EB which you better believe will require premium.

In 2000 I had an Acura 2.5 TL which required premium; my wife had a '98 Sable with the 3.0 Duratec which had a higher compression ratio than the Acura (and the same hp per cubic inch) and the Sable required only regular.

Any engine can be tuned to run on lower octanes these days with ignition curves that can be "dialed back" to prevent detonation. In the old days, cars were calibrated in a much narrower range and were generally optimized for a specific fuel grade. Does the '04 Lincoln say premium "required" or premium "recommended"? If it is required, use premium for sure.

The EB will perform better using premium.

George

 

I was going to ask, but you already answered

 

I can attest to this. I have put nothing but premium in it from about the third tank. It is noticeable.

 

I already use to premium in my 04, so I already have the mindset to use premium in the 15. Glad I never put anything else.

 

The EB has a really wide range of timing so it can take advantage of the higher octane. But I picture 20 year old EBoosts in clapped out F150's pulling lawn equipment trailers and that is why Ford HAD to make them able to run on cheap gas.

Similarly, other engines including the 3V Ford that are dual fuel engines can really get a kick from running 85% ethanol and some advertise the seriously higher HP and torque ratings for 85%. (NOT the Eboost, though...just gas in that.)

I have a garage queen '91 BMW (premium only) that I drive <1000 miles per year and owned a lot of high performance cars over the years so I used to be accustomed to premium, but my Acura which I sold in 2007 was the last daily driver that required it. Seems like some stations gouge for premium these days and I don't take the time to shop the stations.

Good luck; I'm an old van guy considering an Expy (maybe) and a 2015 (less likely but possible). Just nosing in on how the Eboost really does and waiting for a few to get to 200k miles to show me it can be done.

George

 

This is an older video, but still relevant. Check his video description for recommended oil and system cleaner.

 

Did not have time to watch the sales pitch. Ford does not recommend snake oils and one of my concerns about the EBoost or any DI engine is the intake valve deposit problem. I was concerned from the beginning. No fuel is gonna make a difference because it does not get near the backs of the intake valves and blowing anything thru the intake can trash turbos and clog catalysts. Better catch cans theoretically help but Ford should put them on.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, direct injection is the major reason that you can run low octane fuels with high compression or a turbo.

Again, I'm not gonna feel really good about the EB until there are a bunch of them in the field with over 200k miles without extensive work having been done. So I will probably bite the bullet on a V8 in an earlier Expy if I do choose to buy an Expy at all, less power and less mileage, but a known entity.

Still the EB is appealing but the only turbo vehicle I ever had (an '87 Dodge Lancer) needed new head gasket, turbo, and upper end work at the tail end of the 7/70 warranty.

Thanks,
George

 

I have seen that video a few years back. I hope that Ford has made some revisions to help with the issues since the EB has been out for a few years.

 

FWIW, the new Navigator requires premium fuel and is also rated at higher HP. Not sure whether it has a different tune than the Expedition or the motor automatically compensates and doesn't pull as much timing out under boost. I actually just ordered a 5 Star tune with multiple performance/towing tunes and 1 93 performance tune. Even with the 87 tune, it's advertised at +35/60 HP/torque at the tires and safe to tow the max rating. Assuming a random 15% parisitic loss, that would be 406 advertized HP and 490 lb/ft of torque, and the 93 tune would be 441/537. Best part is that they are highly rated and you can get a warranty that will cover up to $20k of damage should something break and Ford deny the claim.

 

Do you have a link to said tuner?

 

This is a good Forum, scroll down to 'F150 performance" thread for info and experiances with 5-Star, they are also a forum supported with their own thread. there's also an 'Expedition" thread at the bottom. F150 Ecoboost Forum


Here's the tuner as sold through Stage3motorsports with info and graphs. 2015 Expedition 3.5L EcoBoost SCT X4 Tuner & 5-Star Custom Tunes 7015


Here's the warranty (2) 5-Star offers at a cost. Powertrain Warranty - 5 Star Tuning

 

You should watch it. It really wasn't a sales pitch. His videos are very informative, without any ulterior motives. At least none that I can detect.

 

I know the problem very well and was posting threads about it in 2011. And I'm still waiting for a history to be built up with the EB. I am in Detroit and know Ford engineers (as well as GM, Chrysler, and Toyota engineers). I saw the teardown of the torture test EB at the Detroit Auto Show in 2011.

I had the video running while doing something else and it looks like it's not a snake oil sales job but a discussion of the problem. And I'm still nervous about any DI engine except Toyota's because they have a port injector in addition to DI--the port injector cleans the intake valves at idle and/or low speeds.

Here is my thread from 4.5 years ago:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-deposits.html

I will also note that I found that the Nav is listed at 380 hp (compared to 365 for the Expy) and 460 lb ft of torque (which coincidentally is the SAME as the 6.2 engine in the Escalade). So the Lincoln engine is hopped up from the Ford version. I can't find a hard fuel recommendation but if I had one I would be running mid or premium with a Navigator especially.

George

 

My wife has a 15 Navi and i looked on Lincolns website and it stated 87+.