I have a 2004 Motorhome with the F53 chassis, 6.8L V10 Triton. Does anyone know of a scan tool that will read the misfire monitor on this engine. It is not fully OBDII compliant, the VECI plate states OBDI but it does have the OBDII DLC
Nick

 

Hi Nick, an welcome to FTE!

I'm not sure of the cutoff years, but the overwhelming majority of Super Duties in the early 2000's are OBD-1. It's confusing because they use an OBD-2 data link connector.

The computer system is the same, but it's only certified to the old OBD-1 standard, so any OBD scan tool will read generic codes. To get to any enhanced data you need a more capable scan tool. Lots of us here on FTE use something called AutoEnginuity. One of our site sponsors sells the Ford bundle for a decent deal.

AutoEnginuity Total Ford Scan Tool Package Enhanced Bundle SP03

 

Thank you Tom, it certainly is confusing. My main scan tool is the AutoEnginuity system, it is excellent. Unfortunately they do not support this engine configuration so there is nothing to be gained by buying the enhanced bundle, that was my first line of enquiry. I have even looked at the OTC Genisys ($1000+) but that only covers 2005 on. I am really struggling to find a suitable tool (I am sure there is one out there that I can afford!).
Nick

The link to that product has changed it is http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/autoen...ord-expansion/

 

I don't think that's right.

I had the exact same power train configuration in my old Excursion and AE worked just fine. They probably don't get asked about a motor home chassis very often, so they default to "no".

 

The F-53 chassis comes in various GVWRS, and all of the motorhome versions are over 14,000 lb. GVWR (up to 22,000 lbs in some configurations in 2004), which puts them into a different emissions certification classification, with different PCM calibrations than that of an MPV Excursion with a GVWR under 10,000 (8,500 to 9,200).

I'm not sure if this is the issue you are running into with AE, and I too, am kind of surprised that AE isn't picking up an emissions related fault which is mandated by federal law to be open source, not proprietary... but anyway, there is a difference in calibrations.

I use an Ford NGS Scan Tool. It is outdated for any Ford vehicles newer than 2009, but it works PERFECTLY and COMPREHENSIVELY on ALL Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury (and some Mazda) vehicles, no matter what GVWR, for a 25 model year period of time dating back to the Lincoln Mark VII EEC IV system in 1984.

You can find used NGS Scan tools on eBay. Well worth it to me to have a professional, bidirectional, dealership quality scan tool that all of the Ford factory service manuals of that era refer to for diagnosis of any and all problems that can generate a fault code.

NGS stands for New Generation Star. The tool was manufactured for Ford by Hickok Instruments. It uses separate PCMCIA cards for service and diagnostics. The software was written by Ford, for Fords, and never needs updating, as it is set in stone for the legacy model years it covers. All the most recent updates and tweaks were completed by 2010.

Ford migrated from NGS to WDS to IDS. The IDS is Ford's current diagnostics system, and it has evolved to almost require an online link with Ford, or a Motorcraft Service license, to be fully useful. By contrast, the NGS is virtually stand alone. It never needs to connect online. A separate interface is used to update computer calibrations, which isn't something that is needed to fix a problem in this, and in most cases with 10 year old vehicles.

 

Tom
Inspired by your comments, I have just played around with my AE package, changing vehicle types. I selected F350 (F53 is not an option) and although it still doesn't see the Bank O2 sensor, it only sees Bank 1 O2 sensors (B1S2 reads zero as it is not present) it sees short and long term fuel trim for both fuel systems and critically it shows the misfire monitor (which cannot put on the MIL light on the F53 as I understand it). Cylinder 4 has a significant rate (more than 10 times) over any other cylinder. So with a bit of luck that might be it. I will order a couple of coil packs and a set of plugs and let you know.
Nick

 

Thank you Y2KW57
I have had a quick look at what is on offer. As well as the NGS it seems I would need a card to go in it? Presumably I need the latest date I can find (at least 2004), but what is the real significance of the color of the card? Which color should I go for?
Nick

 

Good job persevering with what you already have, Nick.

You'll want a Red card and a Green card for your application, but at minimum, you will NEED a Red card for Diagnostics, like what you are trying to do today. The Green card is for Service, like ABS brake bleeding, module configuration, tire diameter/speedometer calibration, key reprogramming, etc. Nice to have, but not necessary for doing OBD diagnostics like the Red card is. The Green card doesn't have the functions of the Red card, so it isn't like you can have it all in one card. There are actually 8 available cards for the NGS system. The others are not relevant to your application, except for the Purple card, which has all the functionality of the Green card, with 5 more model years of coverage.

2004 is right on the borderline of some Fords switching to CAN bus, but not the F-53 in 2004. If you had a Ford with a CAN bus network, you would need a different lower half of the NGS tester, called the DLM, short for Diagnostics Link Module, that is labeled CAN / XL. It is black in color, unlike the tan/gray of the rest of the scan tool. Again, not needed in your case. You can get the original NGS with the same color DLM that looks like this:

 

Fantastic, thank you. I am now on the lookout for an NGS scanner.
Nick

 

Hello:
Based upon this post, you seem very knowledgeable about the NGS and its capabilities.
Several years ago I purchased the Hickok 2009 MY update package for my Ford NGS specifically to service my 2009 F250. The 2009 Version 5.0 software cards can talk to the truck and execute most Diagnostic and Service Bay functions I have tried over the years.
I recently developed a small EVAP leak problem and wanted to command the EVAP canister purge and vent valves so I can smoke test the EVAP system but I can't seem to get any Active Commands to work.
If I set up the tool for Automatic, I get a failure message as soon as I hit Trigger. If I setup the tool for manual, I get the same failure message as soon as I hit Send. I tried commanding other obvious visible items like the MIL and AC clutch and always get the same failure result. I can't find any help in the NGS or shop manuals to show me the error of my ways. The NGS hasn't been sold or officially supported for years but was hoping somebody knowledgeable of the tool and its capabilities was still around and could offer some pointers.
Most specifically, is there any reason why the Active Commands functions wouldn't be supported for a stock 2009 F250 with the 5.4 Triton?

Thanks.

 

Does your NGS have a black colored lower half Vehicle Interface Module?

Does your VIM have a blue label, or a red label?

Does the label say "NGS XL with CAN"?

 

Hi:
Thanks for the quick response. I am using the NGSXL with CAN VIM with the blue label and the Version 5.0 Brown Diagnostic card.

 

Your Brown card Version 5.0 is the latest and last version of the Diagnostics Card, released November 10, 2009, but the problem is, the Brown card is a Diagnostics card.

To perform the EVAP LEAK TEST that you were trying to do, you need a SERVICE card. It sounds like you are trying to cajole a Diagnostics card into performing a Service card function.

You need a GREY card. Search GRAY too, as people spell the color greigh differently.

The latest and last Grey Service Card is also Version 5, and it was released on November 11, 2009.

The Grey Service card will also enable you to perform an ABS Service Bleed, install programmable modules, perform PATS functions, as well as do what you are trying to do, which is perform an EVAP leak test.

The Brown Diagnostics card that you report you've been using can do none of those Service Bay functions, even though it can bidirectionally communicate with the PCM and activate some commands.

There are aftermarket resources that have captured the files of the Grey Service card, and they can mount these files onto a PCMCIA card that will fit in the slot on the back of the NGS, if you are unable to find a genuine Hickok Instruments card.

 

Thanks again for the tips. I have the Version 5.0 gray card but it doesn't have the Active Commands function on it.
To clarify, I am not trying to force the EVAP test since I already know it fails. I was trying to use the Active Commands feature to selectively force the canister vent valve and EVAP purge valve to close so that I can pressurize the EVAP system with the smoke generator and find the small leak. That is what sent me down the path of determining that the Active Commands feature wasn't working despite following the NGS manual to the letter. I ended up crawling under the truck and closing the valve the hard way.
The supplier I bought the 2009 update package from suggested I test the NGS on another vehicle. I attempted to test the Active Commands functions on my 2006 Mustang. I was able to command the dashboard Anti-theft light off and on at-will as expected but couldn't actuate anything else in the Active Commands menu. I get the same NGS error messages as on the truck:

-UNABLE TO PERFORM TEST/FUNCTION
-CONDITIONS NOT CORRECT
-CHECK SHOP MANUAL FOR PROPER TEST/FUNCTION REQUIREMENTS.

The mystery continues but I sure do appreciate your ideas and feedback.

 

@Y2KW57 Hope I can bring up this thread again to get some advice on a scanner. I think buying an older NGS scanner is more cost effective now than taking it to Ford dealer for even a onetime diag. Could I get some advice on what I should be looking at (probably buy on Ebay), card, link module, etc.? Vehicle is a 1999 V10.