Trailer brake question
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
Trailer brake question
Alright. I have a 7x16 cargo trailer. I replaced all the brakes, bearings, and drums. After I replaced the brakes they seemed to not brake well. The brakes are the self adjusting, but didn't seem to be working. So I watched a couple you tube videos on adjusting trailer brakes. Adjusted them to where I thought I should. Now I don't know if I have them adjusted to much or what. I can smell the brakes after a stop and go trip and the wheels are warm to the touch, and the brakes are squeaking again. They sound like the old wore out brakes sounded like. Also if I have to brake hard and let off the pedal the brakes chirp, I can hear the tires lock up for a moment and then release. I don't get it. Did I screw something up or what?
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 72
From: West Virginia
I'm not sure what kind of brake system you have.
Drum brakes for sure, if you can adjust them, but how are they actuated? Are they surge brakes? Electric over hydraulic? Or just electric?
Do you use a brake controller?
You could have the brake shoes adjusted out too far. If you can't easily spin the wheel by hand, they are adjusted out too far and need to be turned back in until they no longer contact the drum surface.
If the brake shoes are properly adjusted, then the brake controller would be the next thing I'd check. Is it properly set? If you have the force set too high you will feel the trailer trying to stop your truck, too low, and your truck will do all the work. Properly set and both units will stop as one.
If the brakes are hydraulic surge, I'd check the movement of the coupler to make sure it isn't binding, then the setting **** of the master cylinder. Make sure it moves from the forward position to backing position easily. Finally, check brake fluid to ensure the proper level and that it isn't too old.
That's about all I can think of that could give the symptoms you are describing.
Drum brakes for sure, if you can adjust them, but how are they actuated? Are they surge brakes? Electric over hydraulic? Or just electric?
Do you use a brake controller?
You could have the brake shoes adjusted out too far. If you can't easily spin the wheel by hand, they are adjusted out too far and need to be turned back in until they no longer contact the drum surface.
If the brake shoes are properly adjusted, then the brake controller would be the next thing I'd check. Is it properly set? If you have the force set too high you will feel the trailer trying to stop your truck, too low, and your truck will do all the work. Properly set and both units will stop as one.
If the brakes are hydraulic surge, I'd check the movement of the coupler to make sure it isn't binding, then the setting **** of the master cylinder. Make sure it moves from the forward position to backing position easily. Finally, check brake fluid to ensure the proper level and that it isn't too old.
That's about all I can think of that could give the symptoms you are describing.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
Likes: 491
From: Bristol, TN.
On your cargo trailer the brakes are electric.
First, just jack up a wheel and spin it. You should just hear the shoes kiss the drum, but not slow it much or at all. If you smell the brakes, I am betting your shoes are rubbing the drum constantly, so start there.
it is unlikely the controller is making the wheels hot, but if it is making the tires chirp, it may be set too aggressively. Why did you suspect your brakes were the problem rather than the adjustment of the controller (just asking) when you went further with the brake adjustment? What controller do you have?
Is there a reason you replaced everything?
Steve
First, just jack up a wheel and spin it. You should just hear the shoes kiss the drum, but not slow it much or at all. If you smell the brakes, I am betting your shoes are rubbing the drum constantly, so start there.
it is unlikely the controller is making the wheels hot, but if it is making the tires chirp, it may be set too aggressively. Why did you suspect your brakes were the problem rather than the adjustment of the controller (just asking) when you went further with the brake adjustment? What controller do you have?
Is there a reason you replaced everything?
Steve
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 2
From: Southern Cal
Not sure if you have a single axle or double but I'd expect to see about 140 degrees on freewheeling axles and 165 degrees on braking axles if you have an IR gauge after driving a bit and not braking much.
Some drum brakes need to be set close, then backed off a turn or two.
As others have noted, no rolling resistance when adjusting but still very close. You have to raise up each wheel for proper adjustment.
Some drum brakes need to be set close, then backed off a turn or two.
As others have noted, no rolling resistance when adjusting but still very close. You have to raise up each wheel for proper adjustment.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
Alright, I thank you all for the answers so far. I am gonna try to ask the questions the best I can.
Double Axle - both axles brake, electric
Brake controller is a drawtite brand
The videos I watched said to adjust the brakes to when you spin the tire it would spin 2-3 times before coming to a stop. (Is this wrong?)
I was always told to set the controller to where if you manually applied the brakes with the controller you would feel a slight pull on the truck with the trailer braking. (Is this wrong?) Currently I have my controller set at 2.5. Just guessing my trailer is in the 5,000# range, again just a guess. I knoiw when I pull my 17' camper the 2.5 is too much and I have to turn it down.
I knew the brakes needed replacement because I bought the trsailer from my dad and it had been probably 10-11 years since the brakes had been touched last. They were making all kinds of noises and racket. When I replaced everything they were shot. You could turn the controller up to 6 with no braking from the trailer. Thats why everything was replaced.
Double Axle - both axles brake, electric
Brake controller is a drawtite brand
The videos I watched said to adjust the brakes to when you spin the tire it would spin 2-3 times before coming to a stop. (Is this wrong?)
I was always told to set the controller to where if you manually applied the brakes with the controller you would feel a slight pull on the truck with the trailer braking. (Is this wrong?) Currently I have my controller set at 2.5. Just guessing my trailer is in the 5,000# range, again just a guess. I knoiw when I pull my 17' camper the 2.5 is too much and I have to turn it down.
I knew the brakes needed replacement because I bought the trsailer from my dad and it had been probably 10-11 years since the brakes had been touched last. They were making all kinds of noises and racket. When I replaced everything they were shot. You could turn the controller up to 6 with no braking from the trailer. Thats why everything was replaced.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
Likes: 491
From: Bristol, TN.
Thanks for the response.
Just start by checking the resistance of the shoes on the drums by elevating the wheels. Just double check this as I think that is where the problem will lie.
To set your brake control, go to the manufacturer's website and follow their instructions. Again, I do not think this is a controller issue.
I will be surprised if this proves to be anything major.
Steve
Just start by checking the resistance of the shoes on the drums by elevating the wheels. Just double check this as I think that is where the problem will lie.
To set your brake control, go to the manufacturer's website and follow their instructions. Again, I do not think this is a controller issue.
I will be surprised if this proves to be anything major.
Steve
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 655
Likes: 18
From: Randolph County NC
I have found that I have to back way off on my brake controller gain when pulling my utility trailer with only one set of brake shoes. I always adjust my brakes to lock and then back off 5 clicks, wheel should spin with slight dragging sound. One of these also works well to adjust drum brakes.
GearWrench 3377 Brake Reset Gauge | eBay
GearWrench 3377 Brake Reset Gauge | eBay
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Northern Indiana
Alright. I will try and get this looked at tomorrow. I appreciate it. Wish I didn't have to mess with the bearings to take the drums off. That would make it a LOT easier.
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Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
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Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
I will not be pulling the drums. Was just saying it would be easier if they were more like normal brakes
These are lippert brakes and they have 2 arms on the adjuster, so they are kinda a pain to get released. But will do my best and report back tomorrow.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
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From: Northern Indiana
Alright. I adjusted the brakes. Both sides. 3 of them were pretty good I think. One was way tight. Tire would only move a 1/2 a turn or so at a time. Now, my question is. They are probably all backed off too much. I couldn't tell where to be. They always sound like they are dragging a little. My question. If they are backed off I could leave them and let them adjust there self correct? To help I could hook up the truck and pump the brakes? Just trying to figure how to get them adjusted correctly. Or am I just dumb in this area? Pretty mechanically inclined but this is a area I don't have any experience with.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 22
From: very South Texas
New brakes .. will drag (some) till they take a "set" with the drums...
with them backed off.. tow for a while.. may need to adjust controller.. after a few hundred miles.. reset controller .
remember how smooth the old shoes may have looked. and the new ones. (Ruff)..
with them backed off.. tow for a while.. may need to adjust controller.. after a few hundred miles.. reset controller .
remember how smooth the old shoes may have looked. and the new ones. (Ruff)..
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 72
From: West Virginia
Alright. I adjusted the brakes. Both sides. 3 of them were pretty good I think. One was way tight. Tire would only move a 1/2 a turn or so at a time. Now, my question is. They are probably all backed off too much. I couldn't tell where to be. They always sound like they are dragging a little. My question. If they are backed off I could leave them and let them adjust there self correct? To help I could hook up the truck and pump the brakes? Just trying to figure how to get them adjusted correctly. Or am I just dumb in this area? Pretty mechanically inclined but this is a area I don't have any experience with.
Unlike vehicular self adjusting brakes (which adjust when you step on the brake going in reverse), self adjusting trailer brakes are normally forward adjusting, which means they continually adjust while being used.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
Likes: 491
From: Bristol, TN.
Alright. I adjusted the brakes. Both sides. 3 of them were pretty good I think. One was way tight. Tire would only move a 1/2 a turn or so at a time. Now, my question is. They are probably all backed off too much. I couldn't tell where to be. They always sound like they are dragging a little. My question. If they are backed off I could leave them and let them adjust there self correct? To help I could hook up the truck and pump the brakes? Just trying to figure how to get them adjusted correctly. Or am I just dumb in this area? Pretty mechanically inclined but this is a area I don't have any experience with.
I don't think you are dumb, but perhaps trying too hard. I think you should be good to go just the way you are. When you get a chance, take it for a spin and see how things feel. If they sound like they are dragging just a hair, you have done as much as I ever do.
Steve