Stainless Works Long Tubes
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New User
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Stainless Works Long Tubes
Hey guys, I've got a 2014 F150 5.0, currently with a 93 octane MPT performance tune, AFE stage 2 CAI, and Flowmaster super 10 catback. I'm about to order a set of Stainless Works Long Tubes, with no cats. Any ideas on how much hp and torque gain I should see? Will be going with a new 93 octane performance tune from MPT, recalibrated for the headers and cat delete. Thanks in advance
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,094
Likes: 379
From: Southern California
Little at best........(5-10 at peak rpm)
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
New User
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Wow
Little at best........(5-10 at peak rpm)
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 119
Little at best........(5-10 at peak rpm)
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
New User
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Little at best........(5-10 at peak rpm)
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Technically everything you said is correct. But keep it mind all states are different. For instance I live in kansas, where there is no emission test for inspection. Federal law applies if they catch you altering or illegally removing catalytic converter. If you buy a truck without one, (like I did) its not illegal. And in kansas they dont care for real. Noise ordinance violation is more realistic for Being pulled over. But than again I dont see to many officers with a decimal meter. Lol. Btw I plan on putting cat on and Flowmaster duals out the back with black tips. I agree on the horsepower. Right now I have a glasspack cherry bomb on my 5.0 V8 without a cat. Sounds like a damn stock car. Very good. But to loud for me, and gas mileage is terrible without the Cat.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 231
Likes: 6
Little at best........(5-10 at peak rpm)
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
Your truck is already equipped with a CAI......no hp gains there (documented)
The 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm & 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higher than reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718 cfm..........so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine that is already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic laws of physics without a forced induction system.
The formula which is used by every air filter manufacturer in the world to determine the CFM for flat panel filters is...
Flat Panel CM= Length x Width x 6
2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube
Cat delete...no Hp gains there either (documented)
A couple of FYI's
1. Removing the cats will really not gain much power.
2. Even though you are exempt from inspections, you are not exempt from the requirement to have them- even US Fish & Game Wardens carry a manual that identifies each vehicle and the required smog equipment, illegal engines changes, etc with pics of how to ID.
3. Any law enforcement officer (including fish & game), EPA inspector, etc. can impound the vehicle and cite it as a gross polluter
4. Once cited, a judge will decide if the vehicle is to be scrapped or returned to the owner- and you do not have any opportunity to speak in court- just required to sit & listen.
5. If the vehicle is returned- guess what, now you have to repair and take the vehicle to a federal referee station for the rest of "its life" for a smog inspection & test.
IMHO, it's not worth the risk versus the little gain.
Here's a link to a "Real Test" that verifies....on a 700+ hp engine......no gain or loss of with or without the cats!
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...aust_tests.pdf
The myth about high flow cats
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
The oem units are already "Hi Flow cats"....you won't change a thing by swapping.
Under federal regs………up to $2,500 for modifying any emission control device….and lets face it, for the few hp (if any) you will gain by switching to “high Flow Cats”, that $2,500 can buy a lot of real performance!
Straight from the EPA's page and the Federal law trumps state laws, it might pass emissions but ever get a cop with “wanting a reason” for you and you can get hit pretty good.
Quote:
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter
has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
Any other converter replacement must be with a 'certified' or new original equipment (OE)
or equivalent converter.
Aftermarket converters subject to the enforcement policy requirements cannot be used for
replacement if:
(1) the existing converter is present and functioning properly; or
(2) the replacement is under recall or warranty; or
(3) the vehicle is returning from overseas use.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
An off road pipe or deleting your Cats is good for up to $25,000.
You will hear people saying they have passed emissions inspections with aftermarket high flow cats……………they were lucky and found a shop that will eventually be fined & shut down…even worse, once that occurs, the state or feds can e-tag every vehicle the shop has passed for the next upcoming inspection and even order you to take the car to a federal referee station.
And with regards to “probable cause”, after market mufflers will give any LEO that and without a warrant or other impound cause, it is “legal” for any LEO to look under the vehicle (since it is outside the vehicle).
Ok, I get off the dad soap box now (:
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