Heating up on grades
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 4
Hmmm... That's a really good idea!!!! Does anyone know off hand whether I can pull desired fan speed off of my Dashboss? Sorry, if nobody else is sure I will get off my dead behind and go look.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,491
Likes: 295
From: Fresno, CA
From what I've seen with my truck the fan doesn't go to "medium" speed until around 210 and then hit "full" speed at 220. Medium speed you can't hear and FSS is about half of engine speed . Full speed is VERY loud and FSS goes above engine speed.
I've also noticed, when driving around town during the summer when I've got the AC blasting, the clutch will lockup to full speed at idle (FSS is approx 800), I think to keep the AC airflow up as it will declutch quickly once you get going (FSS drops to around 500). You do hear the fan spool up for a second as you take off before the clutch disengages.
I was having temp issues and checked my radiator, thought it was clean. Decided to try a new radiator, and was amazed to find a MOUNTAIN of crap in the radiator, that I couldn't see from above.
New Napa radiator didn't fit so I cleaned the stock one and temps seem better. You might try pulling the radiator (not that difficult) and check it.
FYI with the plugged radiator I was running 205-210 climbing 6% grades with no load but 190-195 in the flats. Haven't been able to see what it will do now with a cleaner radiator.
2005 F250
I've also noticed, when driving around town during the summer when I've got the AC blasting, the clutch will lockup to full speed at idle (FSS is approx 800), I think to keep the AC airflow up as it will declutch quickly once you get going (FSS drops to around 500). You do hear the fan spool up for a second as you take off before the clutch disengages.
I was having temp issues and checked my radiator, thought it was clean. Decided to try a new radiator, and was amazed to find a MOUNTAIN of crap in the radiator, that I couldn't see from above.
New Napa radiator didn't fit so I cleaned the stock one and temps seem better. You might try pulling the radiator (not that difficult) and check it.
FYI with the plugged radiator I was running 205-210 climbing 6% grades with no load but 190-195 in the flats. Haven't been able to see what it will do now with a cleaner radiator.
2005 F250
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,870
Likes: 47
From: Tennessee
Jester has a good point on a partial clog in the radiator .
I just don't see that as your issue ... But could be !
Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: Central Ar
IIR correctly, I have read that with the Auto A/C control head can influence the PCM to command the Fan on at lower than normal temps. With mine it will randomly command the fan while at idle and below the normal 210 temp. Other times it will not command at all. Try turning off the A/C and see if you get the same effect. As normal I had to go back a reread the original post. You might just have a weak clutch.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 0
From: Yakistan, WA
I'd appreciate any helpful advice, I'm getting frustrated.
This is a 2003 6.0 which to the ear, and to drive it is running great. No black smoke, no white smoke, no puking, no coolant loss, no white stuff around the degas bottle. I keep it well maintained. I've been chasing this problem for about a year now (well, actually kind of thinking about it, ignoring it, and not driving it a lot). Ex now has 116,000 miles on it. For the record, I'm about to send the FICM to ed, as FICM main voltage is occasionally dropping to around 46 volts. I'm also going to replace the alternator at the same time, as my original can't seem to bring the battery up past 12.2 volts. I also have a dashboss.
SO... the problem: Now that I have just replaced the thermostat with an OEM one (I have a Mishmoto and have been following that thread, but don't want to complicate this situation), the ECT seems to run around 192*-194* around town, and pretty consistently. My delta is really good, and normally EOT is not more than 2-4 degrees above that. Pulling grades (empty and not towing) is the problem. Pulling a 7% grade near my house for about 2 miles, at 85* outside temperature I see my ECT climb to 202* - 205*, but then drop right back down when I flatten out. Other than that it seems to mostly run in the 192*-194* range. In the above case even, it seems to only really begin to heat up in the second half of the two mile grade. I know from a trip I took last year, with no tow, and very little extra weight on board that on long grades in higher temperatures it will climb closer to 220*. Okay, so head gasket? Water pump? Fan? As far as the fan goes, how can I test it? Even pulling the above mentioned hill last night the fan duty cycle always said 0%... never went above that. The fan speed was always 450-500. Also, I've heard many posts where some of you have described hearing the fan come on and that it sounds something like a jet engine firing up. Neither my wife nor myself can recall ever hearing that, but maybe we just weren't paying attention.
Sorry for the long post, thanks for any help!
Mike
This is a 2003 6.0 which to the ear, and to drive it is running great. No black smoke, no white smoke, no puking, no coolant loss, no white stuff around the degas bottle. I keep it well maintained. I've been chasing this problem for about a year now (well, actually kind of thinking about it, ignoring it, and not driving it a lot). Ex now has 116,000 miles on it. For the record, I'm about to send the FICM to ed, as FICM main voltage is occasionally dropping to around 46 volts. I'm also going to replace the alternator at the same time, as my original can't seem to bring the battery up past 12.2 volts. I also have a dashboss.
SO... the problem: Now that I have just replaced the thermostat with an OEM one (I have a Mishmoto and have been following that thread, but don't want to complicate this situation), the ECT seems to run around 192*-194* around town, and pretty consistently. My delta is really good, and normally EOT is not more than 2-4 degrees above that. Pulling grades (empty and not towing) is the problem. Pulling a 7% grade near my house for about 2 miles, at 85* outside temperature I see my ECT climb to 202* - 205*, but then drop right back down when I flatten out. Other than that it seems to mostly run in the 192*-194* range. In the above case even, it seems to only really begin to heat up in the second half of the two mile grade. I know from a trip I took last year, with no tow, and very little extra weight on board that on long grades in higher temperatures it will climb closer to 220*. Okay, so head gasket? Water pump? Fan? As far as the fan goes, how can I test it? Even pulling the above mentioned hill last night the fan duty cycle always said 0%... never went above that. The fan speed was always 450-500. Also, I've heard many posts where some of you have described hearing the fan come on and that it sounds something like a jet engine firing up. Neither my wife nor myself can recall ever hearing that, but maybe we just weren't paying attention.
Sorry for the long post, thanks for any help!
Mike
First off, about the electrical side of your problems.... #1, I would get the batteries load tested (cold, if possible), if not done already (what is the age of these batteries?). #2, I would replace the alternator whether or not the batteries check out to be good or not, unless this current alternator is newer, but it sounds like its the original. #3, Now keep an eye on your FICM, and if the drop continues, then get it repaired. Unless money is not an issue for you at all then I would just do all three at once, hell why not.
AND DRIVE IT when possible on any long runs if you can afford the diesel!
Why would you want to do this? Cause these three areas are effected by each other, and they should be squared away if and when having FICM issues . Start with the easiest and move on from there.
Now, lets move on to the temps...... This doesn't sound like a major issue, or the beginning of one IMO. But hey, who asked for my opinion anyways, right?
My delta is really good, and normally EOT is not more than 2-4 degrees above that. Pulling grades (empty and not towing) is the problem. Pulling a 7% grade near my house for about 2 miles, at 85* outside temperature I see my ECT climb to 202* - 205*, but then drop right back down when I flatten out. Other than that it seems to mostly run in the 192*-194* range.
When you say your deltas are good, what do you mean??? Is this spread your talking about done with the standardized delta test? Or is it when you happen to be driving it and you look at the spread?
Last time I saw high EOT and ECT was two months ago, 4% grade for 10 miles at 99* outside temp, and my EOT was at 230*, and my ECT was at 224* on that climb, this was with me doing 80 mph.
Did I worry? YEP!..... But, I wasnt worried that something was wrong with the truck, just the conditions made sense to me.
Please don't get me wrong here, I am trying to help you, not be a jerk. Lets have your mind be at ease.
I can attest, that I think for many of us, in the beginning of ownership of a 6.ohL needed to have Shrink's and be put on chill pills.
Also, I am sure you probably already know everything I stated here since you have been a member since 2007.
Some of us engineers cannot work without them.
NOW WHO's SORRY FOR THE LONG POST??
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
I hope this doesn't sound like I am being an *******, and maybe I am about to do what is quoted in my sig, but....... From the sound of it, this doesn't sound like a problem, other than maybe the fan clutch, if that. I honestly think that there is alot of hysteria in your ownership of this 6.ohL. I use to be this way with my '04 I had, sometimes losing sleep over it.
First off, about the electrical side of your problems.... #1, I would get the batteries load tested (cold, if possible), if not done already (what is the age of these batteries?). #2, I would replace the alternator whether or not the batteries check out to be good or not, unless this current alternator is newer, but it sounds like its the original. #3, Now keep an eye on your FICM, and if the drop continues, then get it repaired. Unless money is not an issue for you at all then I would just do all three at once, hell why not.
AND DRIVE IT when possible on any long runs if you can afford the diesel!
Why would you want to do this? Cause these three areas are effected by each other, and they should be squared away if and when having FICM issues . Start with the easiest and move on from there.
Now, lets move on to the temps...... This doesn't sound like a major issue, or the beginning of one IMO. But hey, who asked for my opinion anyways, right?
These temps your speaking of are what I see occasionally as well, but its a "once in a blue moon" occurrence. Lets also not forget that a 7% grade is VERY steep, and as you stated has not happened often. Also, all these reading that your getting are mostly shots in the dark, unless your holding info back from us.
When you say your deltas are good, what do you mean??? Is this spread your talking about done with the standardized delta test? Or is it when you happen to be driving it and you look at the spread?
You are right about shrink pills as I have almost had mine a year and still have hysteria everyday lol.
Whats the % of the grades, whats considered long to you, and lastly, at what speed was this?
Last time I saw high EOT and ECT was two months ago, 4% grade for 10 miles at 99* outside temp, and my EOT was at 230*, and my ECT was at 224* on that climb, this was with me doing 80 mph.
Did I worry? YEP!..... But, I wasnt worried that something was wrong with the truck, just the conditions made sense to me.
Please don't get me wrong here, I am trying to help you, not be a jerk. Lets have your mind be at ease.
I can attest, that I think for many of us, in the beginning of ownership of a 6.ohL needed to have Shrink's and be put on chill pills.
Also, I am sure you probably already know everything I stated here since you have been a member since 2007.
Give us specific numbers..... Specifics, specifics, specifics, please.
Some of us engineers cannot work without them.
NOW WHO's SORRY FOR THE LONG POST??
First off, about the electrical side of your problems.... #1, I would get the batteries load tested (cold, if possible), if not done already (what is the age of these batteries?). #2, I would replace the alternator whether or not the batteries check out to be good or not, unless this current alternator is newer, but it sounds like its the original. #3, Now keep an eye on your FICM, and if the drop continues, then get it repaired. Unless money is not an issue for you at all then I would just do all three at once, hell why not.
AND DRIVE IT when possible on any long runs if you can afford the diesel!
Why would you want to do this? Cause these three areas are effected by each other, and they should be squared away if and when having FICM issues . Start with the easiest and move on from there.
Now, lets move on to the temps...... This doesn't sound like a major issue, or the beginning of one IMO. But hey, who asked for my opinion anyways, right?
These temps your speaking of are what I see occasionally as well, but its a "once in a blue moon" occurrence. Lets also not forget that a 7% grade is VERY steep, and as you stated has not happened often. Also, all these reading that your getting are mostly shots in the dark, unless your holding info back from us.
When you say your deltas are good, what do you mean??? Is this spread your talking about done with the standardized delta test? Or is it when you happen to be driving it and you look at the spread?
You are right about shrink pills as I have almost had mine a year and still have hysteria everyday lol.
Whats the % of the grades, whats considered long to you, and lastly, at what speed was this?
Last time I saw high EOT and ECT was two months ago, 4% grade for 10 miles at 99* outside temp, and my EOT was at 230*, and my ECT was at 224* on that climb, this was with me doing 80 mph.
Did I worry? YEP!..... But, I wasnt worried that something was wrong with the truck, just the conditions made sense to me.
Please don't get me wrong here, I am trying to help you, not be a jerk. Lets have your mind be at ease.
I can attest, that I think for many of us, in the beginning of ownership of a 6.ohL needed to have Shrink's and be put on chill pills.
Also, I am sure you probably already know everything I stated here since you have been a member since 2007.
Give us specific numbers..... Specifics, specifics, specifics, please.
Some of us engineers cannot work without them.
NOW WHO's SORRY FOR THE LONG POST??
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Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,817
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From: Yakistan, WA
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
IIR correctly, I have read that with the Auto A/C control head can influence the PCM to command the Fan on at lower than normal temps. With mine it will randomly command the fan while at idle and below the normal 210 temp. Other times it will not command at all. Try turning off the A/C and see if you get the same effect. As normal I had to go back a reread the original post. You might just have a weak clutch.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 4
John- I just looked, and it does not appear as though I can pull that (desired fan speed). Pity! That would have been useful.
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 4
I was having temp issues and checked my radiator, thought it was clean. Decided to try a new radiator, and was amazed to find a MOUNTAIN of crap in the radiator, that I couldn't see from above.
New Napa radiator didn't fit so I cleaned the stock one and temps seem better. You might try pulling the radiator (not that difficult) and check it.
FYI with the plugged radiator I was running 205-210 climbing 6% grades with no load but 190-195 in the flats. Haven't been able to see what it will do now with a cleaner radiator.
2005 F250
New Napa radiator didn't fit so I cleaned the stock one and temps seem better. You might try pulling the radiator (not that difficult) and check it.
FYI with the plugged radiator I was running 205-210 climbing 6% grades with no load but 190-195 in the flats. Haven't been able to see what it will do now with a cleaner radiator.
2005 F250
Thank you for the help!
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 4
I hope this doesn't sound like I am being an *******, and maybe I am about to do what is quoted in my sig, but....... From the sound of it, this doesn't sound like a problem, other than maybe the fan clutch, if that. I honestly think that there is alot of hysteria in your ownership of this 6.ohL. I use to be this way with my '04 I had, sometimes losing sleep over it.
First off, about the electrical side of your problems.... #1, I would get the batteries load tested (cold, if possible), if not done already (what is the age of these batteries?). #2, I would replace the alternator whether or not the batteries check out to be good or not, unless this current alternator is newer, but it sounds like its the original. #3, Now keep an eye on your FICM, and if the drop continues, then get it repaired. Unless money is not an issue for you at all then I would just do all three at once, hell why not.
AND DRIVE IT when possible on any long runs if you can afford the diesel!
Why would you want to do this? Cause these three areas are effected by each other, and they should be squared away if and when having FICM issues . Start with the easiest and move on from there.
Now, lets move on to the temps...... This doesn't sound like a major issue, or the beginning of one IMO. But hey, who asked for my opinion anyways, right?
These temps your speaking of are what I see occasionally as well, but its a "once in a blue moon" occurrence. Lets also not forget that a 7% grade is VERY steep, and as you stated has not happened often. Also, all these reading that your getting are mostly shots in the dark, unless your holding info back from us.
When you say your deltas are good, what do you mean??? Is this spread your talking about done with the standardized delta test? Or is it when you happen to be driving it and you look at the spread?
Whats the % of the grades, whats considered long to you, and lastly, at what speed was this?
Last time I saw high EOT and ECT was two months ago, 4% grade for 10 miles at 99* outside temp, and my EOT was at 230*, and my ECT was at 224* on that climb, this was with me doing 80 mph.
Did I worry? YEP!..... But, I wasnt worried that something was wrong with the truck, just the conditions made sense to me.
Please don't get me wrong here, I am trying to help you, not be a jerk. Lets have your mind be at ease.
I can attest, that I think for many of us, in the beginning of ownership of a 6.ohL needed to have Shrink's and be put on chill pills.
Also, I am sure you probably already know everything I stated here since you have been a member since 2007.
Give us specific numbers..... Specifics, specifics, specifics, please.
Some of us engineers cannot work without them.
NOW WHO's SORRY FOR THE LONG POST??
First off, about the electrical side of your problems.... #1, I would get the batteries load tested (cold, if possible), if not done already (what is the age of these batteries?). #2, I would replace the alternator whether or not the batteries check out to be good or not, unless this current alternator is newer, but it sounds like its the original. #3, Now keep an eye on your FICM, and if the drop continues, then get it repaired. Unless money is not an issue for you at all then I would just do all three at once, hell why not.
AND DRIVE IT when possible on any long runs if you can afford the diesel!
Why would you want to do this? Cause these three areas are effected by each other, and they should be squared away if and when having FICM issues . Start with the easiest and move on from there.
Now, lets move on to the temps...... This doesn't sound like a major issue, or the beginning of one IMO. But hey, who asked for my opinion anyways, right?
These temps your speaking of are what I see occasionally as well, but its a "once in a blue moon" occurrence. Lets also not forget that a 7% grade is VERY steep, and as you stated has not happened often. Also, all these reading that your getting are mostly shots in the dark, unless your holding info back from us.
When you say your deltas are good, what do you mean??? Is this spread your talking about done with the standardized delta test? Or is it when you happen to be driving it and you look at the spread?
Whats the % of the grades, whats considered long to you, and lastly, at what speed was this?
Last time I saw high EOT and ECT was two months ago, 4% grade for 10 miles at 99* outside temp, and my EOT was at 230*, and my ECT was at 224* on that climb, this was with me doing 80 mph.
Did I worry? YEP!..... But, I wasnt worried that something was wrong with the truck, just the conditions made sense to me.
Please don't get me wrong here, I am trying to help you, not be a jerk. Lets have your mind be at ease.
I can attest, that I think for many of us, in the beginning of ownership of a 6.ohL needed to have Shrink's and be put on chill pills.
Also, I am sure you probably already know everything I stated here since you have been a member since 2007.
Give us specific numbers..... Specifics, specifics, specifics, please.
Some of us engineers cannot work without them.
NOW WHO's SORRY FOR THE LONG POST??
As far as "hysteria in ownership" I will say this: I don't spend a lot of time 'worrying' about my 6.0, but I do watch my gauges most of the time, and especially on long trips. ECT and EOT are two of the most common perameters for me to watch. I know that there are probably more than one or two of you who are not so sure I have a problem at all. All I can say is that SOMETHING has changed. I am seeing temperature rises up long, and even short grades that were just not normal up until now. The question is why!
The alternator IS the original, and even on trips of 45 minutes to an hour I am not seeing battery voltage go past 12.2 volts, so it's GONE, no matter what. The batteries are only about 1 year old, both replaced at once, and while I may take your advice and load test them again, I sincerely doubt that they are a part of the problem. As far as the FICM goes, I could almost let it go for a while, as most of the time it rides at 48 volts. It does, however, frequently, and for no particular reason drop to about 46 volts and has been doing this for a year or so, so I think it't time to talk to Ed. I may as well do all this stuff at once and have it over with. The voltage drop, by the way, does not seem to necessarily corilate to low points in the battery voltage cycle.
"AND DRIVE IT"... Yes, I am about to take a 3500 mile trip, so this is a good time to catch up on all this stuff.
On your next point I think you misread me. As far as the the 7% grade, this is one near my house and with similar outside temperatures (or even cooler) it is doing it every time. Speed is about 55 to 60 MPH unloaded. Longer grades get much hotter... CONSISTENTLY, and even at lower speeds.
I also watched it get up to around 220* sitting in traffic on a hot day in Boise ID a few months back. This is just not something I'm used to seeing.
Deltas - yes, in the standard prescribed manner, on long trips, repeated many times, and it always seems to be 3.5 to 4 degrees.
And yes, member since 2007 when I first bought this. I still love my 6.0!
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 4
Ouch - we'll see how much of that I can afford right now. I love the EX, and it HAS been overall a really good value, but right now it is going through one of those occasional periods where it seems to want to swallow a whole bunch of money! It's worth it though. Question John - Is cracked, coming loose, busted impellars a pretty common failure mode for these water pumps? At 116,000 miles am I kind of destined to replace it anyway? BTW: Of all the things I am NOT likely to put back on, it's the old water pump, so don't think I am considering it. I am just wondering.