hey everyone im sorry i havent gotten back for a while. well since the last time we talked i did take the wheel off and checked the u joint and like i said it moved perfect. after walking away it came to me i forgot to spin the axle and move it to the next side of the u joint. well once i did that oh boy did it bind up BIG time. after removing everything and changing out the u joint the truck drives soooo much better.

thank you for all of the help and saving me alot of money!

-AJ

 

Liquid10Rider - I just started having very similar issues you've mentioned with my 2001 F-350 crew cab dually 4X4 PSD with 130,000 miles. I've had the truck since new, and have had very little if any issues with it. I do know the vacuum seals on the front hubs need to be attended to, but now I have a sudden new issue that has just started.

The steering acts up very much the same as yours was doing, and then some. I first started noticing that I can be driving straight down the road and it feels like someone else is slightly turning the wheel to the left heading the truck into the oncoming lane of traffic. When I try to steer it back to the right to keep it in my lane, it's like something is fighting me, then suddenly I'll feel it release, and because I'm pulling to the right I swerve over towards the shoulder.

At first it was mostly driving itself to the left, so I started thinking maybe a dragging brake/wheel bearing (?) but shortly after it has started doing it both right and left.

Like you mentioned, when pulling out onto a crossroad making a 90 degree turn, a couple of times it has acted like the steering stuck and I thought I was going to do a u-turn before I got the wheel to return and got it to straighten out.

Even a little crazier is that out here on the country roads the other morning, I tried a little experiment. Going straight down the road when it was acting up, I actually took my hands off the wheel and just like some invisible person was driving the truck the steering wheel would go left to the point where I was almost on the left shoulder and then pop - something releases and the wheel turns to the right to the point that it's almost on the right shoulder and then pop - something releases and it goes back left again.

So it's really as if an invisible person was steering the truck to the left shoulder, then to the right shoulder, then back again - it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. I'm a lifelong gear head/car guy, I race cars, and was even a GM service tech ( about 25 years ago ) and I have never seen anything like this.

Now this just started doing this out of the blue a couple weeks ago, and I really don't want to drive the truck much til I get this corrected. Sometimes it's really really bad, other times it hardly seems to do it at all, but usually it's somewhere in the middle - not really bad but it's obvious something is NOT right.

IMO, obviously the way this truck is acting can be a huge safety issue...................

I did remove the steering stabilizer just to eliminate that as a possible cause - no change.

I checked for any obvious signs of worn tie rod ends, ball joints etc., - nothing obvious.

Just today I did the power steering fluid flush. Even though mine didn't look THAT dirty I flushed a whole gallon of mercon ATF thru the system just to be sure it's flushed clean - NO CHANGE. (Not to the steering or the brakes for that matter which is disappointing since it seems like I'm the only one who hasn't seen a huge improvement in how the brake pedal feels after the flush).

So now onto the next thing that I will look into.........you mention you found a binding u-joint on the front axle and that seemed to cure your problem. Am I wrong in thinking that those u-joints on the front axle should only come into play when the hubs are locked in ( at least on my 2001 with a solid front axle ) ???
I don't recall if you say what year/model truck yours is?

Anyway, if anyone has any other ideas for me please chime in I'm all ears, I need to get this issue taken care of and would prefer to do it without just starting to change parts at random.

I apologize that my first post here was like writing a novel, but I'm trying to give as much detail as possible to help you guys help me.

Thanks for listening!

 

Well, as soon as I get a chance, I'm going to get under the front of the truck and start looking at the axle u - joints and the ball joints to check for binding etc. etc. - something has to be stiff/seizing up and causing this issue. I'll start with the basics and go from there, and again, if anyone with more experience on these front ends has any helpful input, I'd appreciate it.

 

With those symptoms, I'd start with the axle shaft u-joints also. Turn the wheels a little to one side and try to turn the axle shafts. You should be able to turn them with no binding.

 

As soon as I get a chance I am going to start poking around again and checking things out. BUT like I think I mentioned above somewhere, unless the front hubs are locked in, those u-joints don't even come into play do they ?

I thought the front wheel hubs freewheel until you lock in the hubs, then the u-joints and axles all become locked together so I could see the u-joints causing problems when the hubs are locked in, but if not they just sit there and don't even turn - at least that's how I think they work. ( ? ) I'm almost positive that's how it all works on my truck.

And when you say turn the axle shafts, I will be turning the entire ring & pinion in the front diff correct ?

I'm sure this front end does need some TLC, I was having vacuum hub issues last winter and checked out the whole system with my Mity Vac and the hubs def. will not hold vacuum so I have to tear into for at least that issue, and figure I will go thru everything while I'm into it.

I just want to be sure I am understanding this correctly........thanks for the reply.

 

There is some degree of drag in the seal and it can turn the axle shaft, even with the hubs unlocked. The symptoms are exactly the same as those on a truck I just worked on that had a seized axle shaft u-joint. Checking them isn't going to cost you anything but a few minutes of time . . .

 

Yes, I will def. check them asap. Thanks again for the reply.

 

I thought the same thing as you did. I couldn't imagine how the u joints could come into play unless you were in 4x4. But after I rotated the axle and tried turning the knuckle I noticed the binding. Also on top of that I eliminated the steering linkage by removing it so I could turn knuckle easily. And my truck is an 01 F250 xlt and it did he EXACT same thing as you described. I'd swear someone else was controlling my truck. Hope this helps. Please keep us posted

AJ

 

Okay, just came in from the garage and checking out the front end, and thanks largely in part to you guys I have found the problem.

First I have to say, now that I have taken a closer look at how this front end works, I fully understand how the axle shaft u-joints can cause this problem. As the wheels steer left and right, the u-joints have to rotate on at least one of it's axis , or if it's in the right position both of it's axis in order for the wheels to go left / right when steering. So if one or both of the axis have the needles seized up which will cause binding , the truck will have difficulty steering, and if the u-joint ends up in just the right spot - not steer at all. So kind of like Pikachu said, if the u-joint is in a " good " spot, it wont cause this problem, but if the axle shaft rotates just a little bit and puts the u-joint into a bind - BIG problems like what I've been seeing are the result.

So to cut to the chase, one axis ( say the north/south ) of my drivers side u-joint is VERY seized up. So much so that if I rotate that axle shaft to right spot, I cannot turn the steering, neither with the steering wheel or by laying under the truck and trying to turn the steering by the wheels/tires. (The truck is on jack stands ).
If I position the u-joint in the opposite axis ( say east/west ) it steers just about normal.
Get it in between and when I steer it the u-joint will get in a little bind, but the steering will over come the bind, and rotate the axle shaft so the u-joint moves into a "free" spot.
This explains the "pop" I will feel in the steering when it goes from binding ( and pulling one way or the other ) to not pulling because it becomes un-bound (?).

At least this is the way I am understanding what is going on here - you guys tell me if you agree.

While I was under there experimenting I also was able to put the steering wheel just a little bit off center to the point that u-joint was just going into a bind, and when I turned the axle shaft I could feel the bind get tighter almost to the point that I could not turn the shaft by hand but kept turning it to make a full revolution and as I was doing that the steering is moving left to right about 1" - 2" or so !!!

That would explain the ghost driver driving my truck from shoulder to shoulder on the road..................

So again, now I can definitely see the chaos the u-joints can cause with steering.

Checking the ball joints by using an 8' long piece of rigid 1 1/2" pipe as a pry bar under the tire and watching the ball joints there is some small amount of play in them, mostly the uppers so like most suggest, while I'm in there I think I'll do all four of them also.

Should the u-joints have absolutely zero play/movement in them ?

So I think what I am gonna do, and tell me if you agree, is replace everything outboard of the axle tubes on both sides. Ball joints, u-joints, all the seals, and probably hub bearings too (because one seems to spin a little differently than the other) that way I'll have basically a new front end under the truck, at least all the " wear " items.

I hope I explained my findings correctly, and that I have truly found my problem in the seized u-joint, ( gotta be it right?!? ) and that others may benefit from what I've described here.

And THANKS AGAIN to you guys for the help, now I've just gotta decide where to buy all the parts and get to it! From what I've found this baby will probably drive like a dream when everything is freshened up, at least I hope so.

 

What do you guys think of this kit ? Not sure if I need the axle shafts, maybe I should tear into it first to see. I've got a Ranger work beater to drive while the big rig is down.

Other than ball joints, anything else that I should need for this job that's not in this kit ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370961017182?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

There's no ball joints in it and I bet you don't need the shafts.

 

Yes, I know there are no ball joints in this kit, that's why I asked - OTHER than ball joints, is there anything else I will need that's not in this kit?

And I hope I don't need the shafts, that would obviously save me some cash, but I won't really know til I get it apart.

 

Hey cobalt you described everything identical to what was happening with my truck. You didn't miss a thing with that u joint. I also didn't understand how they could effect the steering but now I truly understand. Actually once I started to replace my u joint the one cap that was seized was help to remove so I heated it up and broke it free. After it came out the needles were frozen to the cap and an older guy I work with told me that was the WORST u joint he has ever seen for all of the years he's been working.

Now I have that cap with the needles on it on my tool box to remind me to grease my u joints.

AJ

 

AJ - did you put greaseable u-joints in the axle shafts when you replaced them,? ( I assume you did since you mentioned remembering to grease them ).

I'm a BIG fan of grease fittings, it drives me nuts that so many mechanical things these days do NOT have grease fittings on them, cars, trucks, snowmobiles etc. etc.. Saves so much work and issues like this by having that simple little zerk there.........

I have another question - on the outer end of the axle tube, there is a seal that must just be a "dust" seal, because the outer ring of it is torn off and just flopping around there. Now, there has to be an actual oil seal somewhere to keep the gear lube in - where is that ?
I'm guessing it must be further inboard, maybe all the way at the other end of the axle tube on the carrier end ???

I have zero signs of anything leaking ( and yes it has lube in it LOL ) so I'm not worried about replacing those oil seals but I'm just curious where they are?

Here's a pic, I'm trying to show with a small screwdriver the loose outer ring of the seal. And I imagine the new seal just gets driven into the end of the axle tube, correct? I've got to reread some of the step by step threads guys have posted here.

 

This guy has some complete kits to cover just about anything on these front ends -

greaseable axle shaft u-joints

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271309624360?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
greaseable ball joint kit

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271272022265?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I have not shopped for parts much yet, do you guys think this Dana/Spicer and Raybestos stuff is good quality & fairly priced ? I would think so compared to somewhere like Autozone etc., and I'd rather buy the good stuff and not have to go thru this job very often.................