When I had my pick up in the shop today the Ford mechanic told me that my truck was very rare because it was a mass air 460 which was only made in the california trucks. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I was told that it had better options to upgrade and modify because of the mass air. I am new to the newer engines and don't know much about them.
thanks
scott

 

I've never came across one yet. The firing order of the 460 is/was the same as the 302, so you probably have a 302/351 computer. You've got a good thing.

'93 F-150 loaded and modified!
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It is very rare because in part your system uses the EEC V computer 100 pinn or 108 pinn something like that if i remember correctly, you also have dual O2 sensors and 19#hr injectors. If you plan on modifying get larger injectors. The Speed density trucks came with 24# hr injectors. I have heard rumors that Ford had planned to keep the old body styles and 460's till the end of 98 and that the development of the Mass air 460's was an evolutionary step that was stopped short in an attempt to release the newer Superduty styles prior to Chevy's release of thier new body's. I dont know if that is true but i have heard it from a couple of different ford guys. Hence the lack of the 98 model year? I wonder.

Goodluck
Dusty



Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel w/ NV4500 5spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, Converted to Sterling 10.5 gears w/3.73 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front, 33's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

 

Cool I guess then when i am ready to start upgrading it more I know where to start asking.

 

One more question, how do I find out which injectors I have and what ones should I go to for more power, and how much of an expese are they? what other upgrades whold anyone sugest? does changing the injectors cause any problems to any of the other emissions calibrations? thanks for all your help
Scott

 

can anyone explain exactly what the differance is between the mass air and speed density? and why one is better than the other?


Thanks

 

Ok I just got done looking at my truck I have blue top injectors in it. so have they already been upgraded or is that what it came with stock? how do I find out for sure?
Thanks
Scott

 

you have 24# injectors. no 460, speed density or not came with 19#ers. they all came stock with 24's.

i seriously doubt you have the same computer as a 302 or 351. in fact you definitely dont!

now for speed density vs mass air. speed density uses a sensor called a map sensor to determine engine load. the pcm uses this map signal to calculate fuel delivery (injector pulse width) epc pressure, ignition timing, convertor lockup and egr vacuum regulator. in this system the pcm has no way of directly measuring the amount of air entering the engine. this is why you hear people say you cant mod a speed density system (not true).

mass air uses a maf sensor. this maf sensor directly measures the amount of air entering the engine. it has a heated wire element in it. as air paeese the wire it is cooled and the sensor voltage changes. the pcm uses this voltage and imput from the tp sensor to calculate load and operate the above mentioned functions. in a mass system there is no map sensor. but there is a baro sensor usually built into the maf. this tells the pcm air density. now since maf directly measures the air entering the engine, the pcm can now compensate (to an extent) for additional air movement due to performance mods, etc.

is one better than the other? well that depends. maf makes things a little easier but is is not a necessity. a good chip burner can definitely get a speed density car with radical mods to idle and perform. ive seen people all over and on this board who have converted to maf after adding an exhaust and an air filter.:-X11 boy did they waste $1000. it is not needed for light mods such as these. its when idle vacuum is disturbed or non existent that speed density is past its limits. like when you install a radical cam the idle vacuum is lowered significantly. this fools the sd pcm into thinking the vehicle is running under a load. in turn the pcm delivers fuel to cylinders that dont need it. this creates a severe rich condition. kiss your idle goodbye. one good thing about sd is that there is no air restriction before the engine. and thats what the maf sensor is. an air restriction. now i know i will get arguments from the above statments. but i dont care. these are the facts. ive gone 12.79 1/4mi in a 4600 lb truck on speed density. and this year i will hit the 11's. and i will never convert to mass air.

 

>>i seriously doubt you have the same computer as a 302 or 351. in fact you definitely dont!
>>

Hmmm. We have several company trucks with 460 E4OD's and they have the same computer #'s as I have on my F-150. Now obviously I can't vouch for a Mass Air 460, but I can for the others.

Speed Density 460's have the same computer's as 302s.


'93 F-150 loaded and modified!
Check my Gallery

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-Mar-02 AT 10:44 PM (EST)]i cant see how this is possible. the 302/351 was a setup with 19# injectors. the 460 was a setup using 24# injectors. maybe im ignorant here. ill check the parts computer at work tomorrow. id be very suprised. but maybe im wrong. youve got me thinking so now i have to find out. ill post my results asap.

 

Ok then so now I have heard I am supposed to have 19# and 24#. 24# are in the truck now but I know that it has had some modifications. cat back system, trany shift kit, K&N filter. and I am not sure what all else. I got the truck this way. so my question now is what injectors can I put in the truck and what kind of changes will it make? and what other mods does everyone sugest?

Thanks
scott

 

Hey guys having fun yet.


The last one of these that i delt with the California truck had white top injectors, which are 19# hr on 1996/97 mass air 460's, all that is required to change to the 24# (blue top) which came on all speed density even in the same years was the recaliberating of the mass air meter. I stand to be corrected but i have seen three cali mass air trucks with the white top when we serviced them our local ford dealership sent us them as 19# hr for replacement parts.

Speed density is supposed to be more percise when caliberated, mass air is a convenient way to give yourself more room to move but even then mass air has its limits.


EFI 460 performance is a dangerous area and spendy very few have ventured past the basics so the questions exists how far do you wish to go?

Doug Thorley Tri Y's are a reasonible set of headers make a good difference, an open element filter charger cone shaped w/o box K&N makes a difference too(the flat filter w/ 460 doesnt make enough of a difference for the cost). Bump your Initial timing up, but you will have to run premium, this does the same thing as a simple chip for the most part. Also You can replace the Timing chain bringing the motor's valve timing up to top dead center w/ a 1970 429/460 timing chain.

Next you'll have to get into performance engine mods, i ported my heads installed larger valves 2.19I 1.76E(i think 1.76 i can't remember now, they are the CJ valves out of motorsport) and roller rockers, good power difference better flow, past these few mods i had to consider a change in the electronics from Speed density to Mass air. This made changing the cam to a .5 lift possible higher compression pistons were in the future and for you can be installed.

Overall I thought of that 245HP motor as puting down maybe 325 HP it definately didnt feel like 375HP LOL . Some people consider Exaust and Air Filters as giving added HP, i like to think of it as just freeing up what the factory restricted. And you are 100% right many people think that mass air is a necessity i did all my mods without mass air and only added it later in hopes of rebuilding the motor to 10:1 and bumping up the injectors to 30# hr. Just my opinion though.

You do not have a 302/352 computer, your computer is unique to your year truck and the 460. It is possible with an earlier 60 pinn EEC IV to use a 302 mass air computer and convert but i am pretty sure yours uses a larger computer plug.


Well i got to go
Good luck guys hop i didnt leave any bad info about those injectors, that has just always stuck in my mind since i tinkered on those trucks as being odd that they had been detuned, under fueled. Or maybe the dealership gave us the wrong parts, but they did match what was in there?
Dusty





Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel w/ NV4500 5spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, Converted to Sterling 10.5 gears w/3.73 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front, 33's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

 

ive never seen white injecotrs. ill look into this. these are colors and corresponding flow rates:

grey 14#
orange 19#
lt blue 24#
red 30#
dk blue 36#
green 42#

now why do you want to change injectors? an injector swap will net you no power gains unless you are already starved of fuel. i would invest in an adjustable regulator before i upgraded. you dont have the mods to even consider it.

 

that is what I was asking, what upgrades to do. Someone suggested injectors so I was asking what ones i should go to and what I needed to do to go to them. I also found out that according to the Ford diognostic that the injectors are supposedly dirty and need to be cleaned, so i was thinking if I should put bigger injectors in I would save the money of having them cleaned.

Thanks for all your guys input. I need to figure out how all this stuff runs together. I work on big diesels at work so I am not sure about all this other stuff.

Scott

 

I was just reading some other threads, and see people taling about Msd ignitions, and fuel regulators. sorry to sound stupid :-X11 but the "new" electroic engines are somthing I am not to farmiliar with. any input on these items and what works best for every one?