Very nice collection! Thanks for the details on the Society

 

My favorite has to be the plumbing truck! It had to take a good sense of humor and a big pair of stones to paint that on a pickup door and keep a straight face. I missed out on a 1/2 ton old binder. all original 4x4. Seen it on a Sat. night in our small town with a for sale sign in it. Called the guy and talked price. Went home and pleaded with the boss. Got the green light. It was getting late so I figured the next day I would close the deal. It sold the next morning to someone else . On the upside my neighbor bought it from the guy who bought it that next morning so I still get to see it often. Just wish I would have pulled the trigger at 10pm instead of waiting.

 

Okay, similar story. I too am an ATHS member and came within reach of buying an R-140 4x4 former brush fire truck from Pappy Vance over in Hannibel, MO. Visited him a couple times about it. Never bit. I suspect Pappy has gone on now, but I think about that truck every so often. Stu

 

There's a guy on this board that calls himself NumberDummy. His name is Bill. I was hoping he would chime in on my Napco. Anyone tell me how to get his attention? Seems like the kind of guy who would have a take on my truck. I'm a bit of a data freak myself. My physical work will be nuts and bolts and metal, but my mental work is just as important, figuring out just what this truck is. I know he'll tell me Ford never built the truck, but he may have some input as to the conversion to dually 4 x 4. Could this have some connection to Canada, since it was deliverd 150 miles away? My research hints at a Ford/Canada/Napco connection. The GMC Napco dual wheel conversion on P.2 also was located nearby.

Also like to throw a question out there about front fender openings. Both my Napco, and the red parts truck have what I call an "open" front fender flare, which I associate with bigger trucks. But the fenders on both my spare clip, and Gary's F350 pickup have a different flare to the openings. Was this a plant-by-plant thing, or what? Weird thing is, a Google image search shows the "big" fenders were used on a few 57 F100's. I don't get this. I'm dialed in on Dodge and GM stuff, but have everything to learn about Fords. Thanks for any help. Dan

How's this for a rat's nest...?

 

welcome to the forum.

there is a guy in elk Wa. who has two but only one looks like that the other is a tow truck

 

First, I've not seen Bill comment here for a while so I hope he's okay. Maybe on vacation. I'll do him a private message and ask if he can comment.

Wide lip vs narrow lip has gotten a fair amount of discussion here. The 1957-1963 Chassis Catalog lists three fenders used in 57/58. Excluding discussion of 59/60 which are different, but have the similar three versions. The catalog says F-100 through F-350s having 15" or 16" wheels/tires used wide lip #B7C 16005-A (RH) and #B7C 16006-A (LH). The narrow lip was used on F-250 through F-600s having 17.5", 19.5", and 22.5" wheels/tires. They are #B7Y 16005-A (RH) and #B7Y 16006-A (LH). The third fender is the version used on B/F/T- 700+ models that are physically much wider than the others. Used with 20", 22.5", and 24.5" wheels/tires. Part numbers COTB 16005-C (RH) and COTB 16006-C (LH). Looking through the 1957 Ford Body Builders' Layout Book gives no further insight.

This takes me back to one of my first observations and questions about your truck. I at first assumed your front wheels were 19.5s but on closer look they are not. The rim lips tell me they are widow maker Firestone RH-5°, which probably means they are 17" x 5.5" Budd #68600 with 7.50 x 17s mounted. But this raises another question about the rear duals. The pictures don't show the bolt pattern, but assuming it is the stock axle with 6 x 7.25" pattern, are your rears 16" or 17"? I assume 16" because I have no catalog record of a DRW 17" having that bolt pattern. Edit - wrong, correction below. Stu

Edit - my PM to Bill failed. He has disabled their receipt. Again, hope he is well. Stu

Edit edit - one more thing to beat this subject into submission. Even though my Chassis Catalog citation above doesn't list a tube type 17" wheel/tire combo on 57 F-350s, my National Wheel and Rim Association (NWRA) references do list the Budd 68600 as an optional wheel. Stu

 

To answer you question about the rat's nest. Holy *#%&! I'd toss a smoke bomb in there and make a run for it before poking it with a long stick. Sure hope Bill chimes in soon.

 

Thanks for the research and reply. First, I'd like to express my concern about Bill. I've only been researching Fords for a month, and it's not like I know the guy, but his posts seemed to be everywhere (like 55,000) and I immediately became aware of what a valuable and vast resource he is. Anyone know him personally? His age? How to reach him? I would think 55,000 posts would put him in an icon status.

I swear, the worst part of this hobby is having to deal with the fact that we're almost all old. Had to go to yet another memorial the other day. The next worst thing is knowing that his kids just aren't into it... Even so, we have to go forward.

Here's what little I know about this Ford Napco: The wheels are all 17", running very old 7.50 tires. The fronts are stamped 68600, and there's a loose pair in the bed. The rears are stamped 63770, but I see no makers mark. They are rivited Budd-style and all corners are non-split rims and tubes. Impossibly, they all hold air. The rear end is a hungo-looking thing with square-tube housings. Has a rivited tag with an upside-down diamond shaped logo that says "dTa". The front diff. looks similar, but has Napco cast into it, and some numbers.

I'm obviously a beginner here, but I don't get how the rear end on this truck wouldn't have to be wider to accomodate the dually set-up. On my Dodges, the dually rearends with the Budd wheels are a foot wider drum-to drum on the pickups than they are on the platforms and C&C's to clear the pickup beds. Thanks for all the input.

 

Yeah, Budd lists the 63770. They are clearly a Napco addition. They are not listed for use on any F-350s in the NWRA references, nor in the Ford Chassis Catalog. The primary user of them was IHC on their various 130 and 140 series models. They are 17" x 5.00", have 4.75" of offset, and have a Goodyear LW outer rim design. Cross section below.

The Timken B100 with 5.14/1 gear set is the stock F-350 axle for 1957. Stu

 

You guys will like what showed up over on the 48-56 forum. Stu

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post14875966

 

I have researched the axle width thing extensively. That's why I used a dually PICKUP rear axle for my srw conversion to a '59 flareside pickup. On my '53 f350 flareside pickup the rear wheels lined up in the pickups fenders only because of special offset rear hubs that widened the hub to hub face. Does your hub from the full floating rear axle protrude through the center hole or is it flush like the '53 with the special hubs? if not, have your inner fenders in the bed been tubbed further inboard, resulting in less than 49" between the fenders? It only stands to reason that if the inner duals ride in the bed's normal manner, the overall width of the trucks rear tires is far greater than a normal cab/chassis truck. In this case wider rear fenders would be needed to cover those tires, much the same as a dually pickup today. Or more like the early '80s dually pickups with fiberglass boxy fenders bolted to the bed side. Edit: I looked back at your first picture and the rear hub is sticking out. Would the inner duals clear the bed if the truck was loaded down? I think if the exact same wheels were put on the rear to match the front, they would be centered in the fenders. I know it wouldn't be a dually then, but just maybe it was built as a srw truck at first like your red one on its way. In most cases I have seen, the front wheels of a dually truck are on a hub extension like a toledo adapter and a matching Budd type wheel up front. Just wondering out loud. I don't remember what your research has told you so far, and it's past my bed time. Old guy here, signing off. GB

 

Thanks for the wheel info. And the IHC's are right up my alley. I just don't think I could "un-dually" that truck your friend has.. The duals are what grabbed me. Plus, it has the fender extensions. That's like the holy grail. I think the yellow truck is at the gold mine in AZ. with old Don Robertson, and I doubt he'd ever sell. The "sad-face" is my favorite body style.

I've been trying to push myself to the later models of these big dually stepsides, just because they go down the road, and you can actually go somewhere. Then the 57 came along with the 5.14's and jerked me all up. There's no way that thing is going on the freeway.

So, I'd jump on something like this and be able to drive it a hundred miles, and back. Still has the badness...





Part of my thing is to crash car shows with my trucks and make everybody run past the Camaros and 57 Chevys to see them. Went to 52 shows this year in 17 different trucks, and made a lot of people realize that trucks are where it's at. So, I have to be able to drive them all over the place.

 

How true. Stu

 

That looks like the later version of the brush truck ad I posted in the other thread. They added Selectro lockouts to the front axle which should help it steer and go down the road a tad better.

First let me say, that NAPCO 350 is COOL. I'd have jumped all over that in a heartbeat if it was in my neighborhood. Like the R-140, it looks like a regular old pickup on steroids. In fact, the 140 I missed on ebay for $6500 had languished on CL for months at $7500 with no takers. Still wishing I'd hit the BIN button and worried about dealing with the War Department later.

As to removing the dual wheels on my truck, it was actually built as a single wheel truck to start with, and the PO stuck stud extenders on it. If you look closely at the first photo I posted, you can actually see the brake drum showing. That's because it sports the special hub extenders for single rims. Adding the Budd stud extenders and hanging the extra wheels off not only looked goofy, it added unnecessary stress to the rear brake drums which are difficult to replace. Posted below is a shot of it coming down the road. You can see the out-of-balance look it has. Wheel-wise my truck is more on par with the red donor you just got. IH apparently hung the extended fenders on all 140 models, I'm guessing to line up better with the larger 150/160 series front fenders they used, dunno.

On the upside, they did make a dual wheel version without the extenders. IIRC, it uses a different drum which is why it's not as simple as just removing the extender. The wheels sit over the drums and inside the fenders properly, like the 1300(?) above. I know of two right now that I've been trying to make a deal on. One is really rough, probably a donor truck. The other is clean, original paint, flatbed on it but has been re-powered with a 345 V8, supposedly a bolt-in. So if you really want one, keep your eyes open, they do exist. And most of them seem to be in your neck of the woods. Forest Service bought a bunch, probably the timber folks too.

Classic trucks have really taken off the last few years. Nothing like muscle cars for price, but folks really are discovering the coolness factor of owning and driving an old truck. Mustangs, Vettes, Camaros, Chevelles.....nice but just not the same character as a truck. And it seems like everyone has an SS or vette these days....

 

GB: Thanks for your comprehensive reply as for the dually deal. Between you, Stu and the others, I've already learned a lot. Really appreciate all the knowledge you guys have. Refering back to your post about my truck originally being a SRW, it would have had to have been. We also know it wasn't a dually. Ford didn't make either a 4x4, or a dually in 1957. The 9' bed was a "Special Domestic Order", not available from inventory, and only about 4000 were made between 57 and 60. The question, I guess, is how it grew to be a 4x4 dually. The guy I got it from says there was a conversation with the timber cruiser, a foreman with Weyerhaeuser that was originally assigned to the truck, that the truck was delivered the way it is and used that way throughout it's service. Then given to the foreman as a retirement gift. When he died, it was sold to a scrap dealer in Auburn, WA, but was saved to be sold to the PO.

Honestly, it's probably all third-hand right now, as the foreman is gone, and the scrap dealer has retired to parts unknown in eastern Washington. A big part of the reason I'm on here is to figure this all out. I know it went to Napco, as it's cast into the front diff. How it got to be a dually is conjecture I suppose, but the truck is supposedly as delivered, and has Weyerhaeuser Yellow paint, a fleet color, as the bottom layer from the factory.

Here's what I do know:
1957 Ford 1 ton 9' stepside (Special Domestic Order).
Special fleet color
Converted to 4x4 by Napco
Documented that Napco did dual wheel conversions without extened fenders (see 1959 GMC in earlier post)

Here's what I don't know:
Supposedly Napco installed the dual wheels. Wheels are all apparently era correct. The bed has not been modified or tubbed beyond the factory stampings. Still don't get the hub thing, but I guess the hubs on my truck would have to be spaced out to accomodate the offset of the Budd duals.

OK, well now I'm spaced out too. See you tomorrow...