Front end issues - second opinion
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From: San Diego area
Front end issues - second opinion
I thought I'd drop a line here and get some more opinions regarding front end issues on a 2000 F250 - 90K miles. . .
The truck was tough to keep inside lanes at freeway speeds when I bought it. Not insane, just not easy.
I took the truck to a local diesel shop and they installed a reman steering gear, new tie rod ends, drag link, front/rear brake pads and checked out the rest of the connections. They also did a power steering fluid flush and an alignment.
When I got it back, it was much better but a bump left or right on the steering wheel would head it off to the left or right (didn't want to return to center) and center felt vague.
I figured the reman steering gear was bad so I had them install a Redhead box hoping for a sweet fix.
Just got a call from the shop and they said the steering issue is still there. The alignment shop said the caster was fine (I figured it was off) and recommended a new power steering pump. I'm wondering if a bad pump could cause this??
Seems odd that it would but I'd like to hear your opinions. The diesel shop is taking it to another alignment shop on Monday for a second opinion as they don't think it's the pump either.
The truck was tough to keep inside lanes at freeway speeds when I bought it. Not insane, just not easy.
I took the truck to a local diesel shop and they installed a reman steering gear, new tie rod ends, drag link, front/rear brake pads and checked out the rest of the connections. They also did a power steering fluid flush and an alignment.
When I got it back, it was much better but a bump left or right on the steering wheel would head it off to the left or right (didn't want to return to center) and center felt vague.
I figured the reman steering gear was bad so I had them install a Redhead box hoping for a sweet fix.
Just got a call from the shop and they said the steering issue is still there. The alignment shop said the caster was fine (I figured it was off) and recommended a new power steering pump. I'm wondering if a bad pump could cause this??
Seems odd that it would but I'd like to hear your opinions. The diesel shop is taking it to another alignment shop on Monday for a second opinion as they don't think it's the pump either.
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From: San Diego area
Front tires are brand new E rated tires with 55 psi in them. I tried 70 psi - no change.
I'm sure they have a printout but I was taking to the shop over the phone. From what I've read though caster adjustments are rarely needed on this model.
I'm sure they have a printout but I was taking to the shop over the phone. From what I've read though caster adjustments are rarely needed on this model.
Last edited by Silverlake; Nov 1, 2014 at 01:18 PM. Reason: added bit about printout
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From: SF Bay, CA
Seems odd that a power steering pump could cause that but I could be wrong... Given the long list of things they replaced, it almost sounds like they just threw parts at the thing instead of diagnosing what exactly was wrong.
I'd go there in person and do a test drive before authorizing more $. Seems like caster or toe could be off. Insist on a print out or don't pay for the alignment. Settings could be pretty far off if they weren't caring in their work.
I'd go there in person and do a test drive before authorizing more $. Seems like caster or toe could be off. Insist on a print out or don't pay for the alignment. Settings could be pretty far off if they weren't caring in their work.
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From: Gary,Indiana
Is your truck lifted?
I myself would need to see the print out to rule out the FEA. I would think it could be a combo of ball joints and some lazy front end guy setting the toe and calling it a FEA. I call that a "Toe and Go" which is NOT a good thing. Also a ball joint can be going bad and you not be able to feel it by prying up on the tire when in the air. I just did all my ball joints last month and before I started I thought I only had one bad ball joint. But I myself never just change one ball joint so I replaced all of them. When I was done and had the old one's in hand 3 out 4 were bad. Also I would be thinking up grading steering stabilizer.
By the way I don't think it is the pump or gear box!
I myself would need to see the print out to rule out the FEA. I would think it could be a combo of ball joints and some lazy front end guy setting the toe and calling it a FEA. I call that a "Toe and Go" which is NOT a good thing. Also a ball joint can be going bad and you not be able to feel it by prying up on the tire when in the air. I just did all my ball joints last month and before I started I thought I only had one bad ball joint. But I myself never just change one ball joint so I replaced all of them. When I was done and had the old one's in hand 3 out 4 were bad. Also I would be thinking up grading steering stabilizer.
By the way I don't think it is the pump or gear box!
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From: San Diego area
The diesel shop says the ball joints are OK and the alignment shop checked them as well. I suppose, based on the comments, they could still be bad.
The truck does look high but I don't know if its "lifted" or stock. There's nothing fancy or non-stock looking when I look at the springs or the mounts.
It has no steering stabilizer and no sign of ever having one. I thought about getting one of the dual shock types. Seems like a band-aid though.
The truck does look high but I don't know if its "lifted" or stock. There's nothing fancy or non-stock looking when I look at the springs or the mounts.
It has no steering stabilizer and no sign of ever having one. I thought about getting one of the dual shock types. Seems like a band-aid though.
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From: Northeast NE
Are the ball joints greaseable? Recently had to replace joints from our fire division (2004 excursion 30,000 miles) On a straight road test drive did not touch steering wheel for 1.5 miles, rough road had to herd it along. New ball joints no more complaints.
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From: SF Bay, CA
With such low mileage, I doubt the ball joints are bad. Steering stabilizer is indeed a band aid. On center slop is usually either worn links somewhere in the system or a bad steering box. Since you did them all, I'd say check alignment and make sure they actually installed the parts... I read a thread once where the column was loose on the firewall or something like that so if you aren't seeing slop in the parts after the steering box, look before the box.
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From: Vancouver
Mileage can be misleading-if the truck has been on rough roads, the ball joints can be bad. How about the bushings? Those spring bushings can cause these problems. What brand of tire are you running? Sometimes tires can cause wandering. Have you checked the front bearings and ball joints yourself? I changed ball joints and solved the wandering of my truck. After doing the ball joints, I had the truck aligned, they had to remove the OEM alignment bushing on the upper ball joint and installed an offset bushing to get the camber or caster right.
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All great advice, much appreciated.
I did a bit of reading and a pump can be tested on the vehicle. If they come back with "needs a new one" as their next move, I'll see if they can test it first.
Still have a tough time believing it could be the pump but I suppose the relief valves could be in bad shape (plugged with old oil and crud from the PO). Not sure how that would affect high speed steering but I'm not a pump expert.
Also, I have no idea what the truck was used for but I'm guessing it pulled a toy hauler on weekends and possibly did some off-roading as well. This could take out the ball joints sooner than later.
I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. This is the last go for the shop though, I don't have time to do it myself, but I'll make time at this point.
Again, thanks for the replies. Any power steering pump gurus, please chime in if a pump could be the culprit.
I did a bit of reading and a pump can be tested on the vehicle. If they come back with "needs a new one" as their next move, I'll see if they can test it first.
Still have a tough time believing it could be the pump but I suppose the relief valves could be in bad shape (plugged with old oil and crud from the PO). Not sure how that would affect high speed steering but I'm not a pump expert.
Also, I have no idea what the truck was used for but I'm guessing it pulled a toy hauler on weekends and possibly did some off-roading as well. This could take out the ball joints sooner than later.
I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. This is the last go for the shop though, I don't have time to do it myself, but I'll make time at this point.
Again, thanks for the replies. Any power steering pump gurus, please chime in if a pump could be the culprit.
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From: Fresno, CA
I did a bit of reading and a pump can be tested on the vehicle. If they come back with "needs a new one" as their next move, I'll see if they can test it first.
Again, thanks for the replies. Any power steering pump gurus, please chime in if a pump could be the culprit.
I really don't think it is. If you wanted to rule it out for sure you could pull the belt off (on a cold engine to prevent overheating) and take it for a SHORT jaunt down the road and see if it still misbehaves. Keep in mind you won't have power steering or brakes, but it should rule out the pump.
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From all the feedback so far, It looks like ball joints (from previous lazy/un knowledgeable inspection) or a lazy alignment shop.
Also, I should have put the words power steering pump in the title in case anyone had a similar problem that was fixed with a new pump (kind doubt it though).
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From: Fresno, CA
Sticky ball joints can be a tough find. Sometimes you can feel them by pulling the tie rods off and rotating the spindles unloaded/loaded feeling for tight spots. But other times it is an educated guess of "well it's not anything else causing it".