hey Folks,

Hope all are well, i've just recently had some time to do some
work to the 51, and noticed a few things I wanted to run by the group.

Just did a carb rebuild, and wow, what a difference that made, it
runs like a different truck now.

And that's what brought me to this issue,

The front end on this truck seems to have gotten a bit sloppy, it will track straight enought if you let go the wheel, but the sterring wheel does have about 3 to 4 inches of play and even kinda holding it straight, she tends to dip and sway with the road, hard left or right turns get a few pop's from the front end.
Since the carb rebuild I've driven it more and it's kinda making me nervous as it can decide to drift lanes on me if i'm not really keeping it straight. There's definatly something going on with the front end.

It's sad cause Dad keeps saying dont drive it too fast, but at 45 it's a bit of a nasty ride and faster it's more stable but greater chance of a boo boo, but this ol' flathead now with the rebuilt carb and Red's headers sure does sound good at 60mph (bout 3grand on the tach).

I'm not 100% familliar with this type front end, but I know from greasing it up good that just the grease helped quiet it down for a bit but the pop's returned. On either side the main Pins(king pins?) that are on the left and right of the steering rack seem to be where the movement possible clicking is coming from.

I dont have a photo today but can get one if needed.

my question would be twofold,

1.is it worth rebuilding the front end back to stock?
> not sure of all the part availablitys there.
Im just joy riding at the moment so going back stock is fine with me here.

but...

2. with all the tips/tricks/aftermarket front end sets,
would this be the best opportunity to "upgrade" and get somthing Like
the Mustang 2 front end or equivalent setup?

I would not mind lowering the truck a bit and the ablility to run the car size hubs would give me more wheels to choose from.
I'm planning on restoring the truck, right now to a "rat rod type" so BONE STOCK is not really on the radar.

Just thought i'd ask and see what you all did as far as front end rebuilds or upgrades, this is a rolling resto and I figured I'd have fun with it as i go.

Thanks all for any tips/suggestions!

Tom.

 

IMO, rebuild the front end and enjoy the truck. I totally went through the front end on my F4, replaced anything that showed any wear. It will run straight down the road at interstate speeds, steers and stops well. All parts are available for the F1. Rebuild the brakes while you're in there.

 

Just went thru the popping sound with mine. It was the lower shock mounting rubber bushing completely worn out. Reach under there and grab each shock and see if you can wiggle them. If so that would be something to address. Got new ones off the shelf at NAPA.

 

Hey guys Thanks for the info.

I'll check the shocks, they prob need replacing anyways,

As far as parts, Napa does have some old stuff still, I'll keep
looking around. The guys at Napa know me very well already!

Thanks for the suggestions!

and Please, if anyone else has any thoughts/suggestions please post!

T

 

If I understand what you're calling the "rack", that is the rod that connects the two sides together. Play at the ends is the tie rod ends. Cheap and easy to replace.

 

Well, it's not exactly the tie rod ends; I noticed when turning the
wheels (while up on a jack I swung them from left to right via handling the tire), I could see a large diamater PIN/Rod thats part of the "spindle" as it allows each wheel to move left to right, seemed to notice play in there cause thats where the grease was squishin out.
(sorry I may not be correct on the terminoligy there)

I know a photo would help. I've got a local car show this saturday i'm going to that's like a mile up the road, I'm going to ask around for a decent local shop that services old vehicles, as my last contact moved and the only other one I know that i've had exp with is over an hour away.

Ehh, stay tuned I'll update as i learn more. Been working late the past few weeks havent had any "truck time".

I'm going to check and prob replace them shocks too.
Thanks guys
T

 

I believe you are talking about the kingpins/bushings. The steel kingpin is what the spindle pivots on, and it rides in bronze bushings in the spindle and goes through the axle bore. After all these years, the bushings are commonly worn out. Easy way to tell is jack the axle off the ground and try to push/pull the top and bottom of the tire (mine moved about 1"). If there is play, the bushings are worn and need to be replaced. The kingpin set is only around $40. The problem can be finding someone to ream the bushings to fit (very tight tolerances). I had a machine shop do mine, but it took some time to find one willing to do it. Some recommend looking for an old school hot rod shop or a big rig shop to do the work.

You may also want to replace the spring shackle bushings, rebuild the drag link, and replace the tie rod ends. You would then basically have a completely rehabbed front end.

 

I see you're from Virginia. You should identify your location so it shows up in your posts by going to the User CP and editing your details. It would be helpful for anyone near you to offer assistance.

Here's a '51 front end drawing. This is for the F1, since you didn't state the model in the original post. Item 3115 is the king pin and 3110 is the bushing (x2) that dmack was talking about. I don't know why saving it as a jpeg squeezed the sides of the drawing so it's out of proportion.

 

Hey Joe, Thanks for the picture, i think thats exactly it, the King pins/bushings.

It is the F1, with the 239 V8 FlatHead 3speed, with Red's headers/exhaust on it Ford/Holly 94 carb, 8BA on the heads, I think we guesed it's probably a 49' car engine. (not sure how I came up with that, read somthing somewhere).

Thanks for the photo, i'll look into how much fun that is to do.

Dmack91 mentioned getting someone to ream the bushings, i'll definatly have to ask around on that. I "may" have someone who can do that but I'll have to ask.

Thanks again very much guys for the suggestions and photo. I'm going to hit Pop's up for this job and see if he'll help financially, probably already know the answer, same answer when I asked for funding for a paint job after I told him the cost!

T

 

The bushings need to be reamed to fit the pins exactly. The shop that does it has to have the right equipment to ream both bushings in the spindle at the same time in a straight line. Otherwise, they may not be perfectly lined up with each other. And then, there will be slop between the brand new bushings and the brand new pin. Not what you want. You can do it yourself with the correct tool, but it costs more than having it done. So if you don't plan on doing this more than once, take it to a shop.

By the way, I just learned ALL of this myself recently on this forum.

 

OK, seems I post this about once a month, but here goes once more: The beam axle is a very sturdy and easily serviced system, it was designed so farmer Joe could service it in his barn. All the wear parts are readily available and are not overly expensive.
If there is slop in the steering and/or the truck does the "drunken monkey" down the road, there is wear some place that should be addressed for safety and comfort in driving. If you are going to service it yourself or hire someone else to do it for you, you should learn how to diagnose the system. who will do the repairs can then be decided, but it is almost a right of passage and source of pride to do the rebuild yourself, unless you don't have a minimal mechanic's tool collection or don't know which end of a screwdriver is the business end.
To diagnose you will need a sturdy jack, a pair of jackstands, two 4" or larger C clamps (they don't need match), about 4' long pry bar or similar length of 2x4, a good bright work light.
1. Jack the front end of the truck up with the jack placed under the center of the axle until the wheels are 4-6" off the ground. Place the jack stands under the frame just in front of the firewall for safety before working under the truck.
2. place the C clamps on the frame, one on each side of the pitman arm. (the vertical arm attached to the steering gear box that swings back and forth when the steering wheel is turned. There is a rod (the drag link) attached to the lower end of the pitman arm that connects it to the steering arm attached to the spindle on the driver's side end of the axle. You want to place and tighten the clamps to trap the pitman arm tightly so it cannot move. Be careful when positioning the clamps that you don't accidentally crush any wires or tubes inside the frame.
3. Get into the cab and temporarily mark the top rim of the steering wheel with a piece of masking or duck tape, or tie a string tightly around it. IF YOU DON"T HAVE ANY TAPE OR STRING OR ? you probably ought not to be doing this, Go in the house, call to make an appointment with that very expensive mechanic who knows you don't know anything so he is going to hand you a big bill, and turn on the TV to Dancing With the Stars!
Turn the wheel from side to side and note how far your mark moves before the wheel stops. The tires should not be able to be turned. The total distance the mark moves is the wheel free play. If the free play is more than 2 inches, the steering box need to be adjusted. If it is more than 3 inches the steering box likely need to be rebuilt or replaced. This is just the diagnosis stage, we will talk about the repair process later.
4. Now get out of the truck and sit, stand, or kneel facing the driver's side tire. Grab the tire firmly at 3 and 9 o'clock, With an effort try to move the wheel back and forth like it was steering. If it moves more than a small amount, that is not good, there are worn parts in the steering system that need to be addressed ASAP.
5. Enlist the aid of a helper (SO, son or daughter, unless the daughter is a prissy teen who thinks touching anything other than her hair/makeup/boyfriend is "icky"!, friend, neighbor, kid down the street, mailman, first person you see walking down the street, etc) to try moving the wheel while you slide under the truck with your trusty work light to see where the play is coming from. If the wheel is moving, but the brake backing plate/spindle is not, the wheel bearings likely need adjustment/replacement. If the steering arm moves but the drag link does not, the ball and socket connection on the end(s) of the drag link should be inspected.
6. Now move to the passenger side wheel and try the same test. If the passenger wheel moves check for worn wheel bearings on that side as on the drivers side. If the play is not in the wheel bearings, and/or the pass side wheel has more free play, then it's likely the tie rod ends need attention.
7. Now check the king pins for free play: on each side place your pry bar or 2x4 under the bottom of the tire and while prying up with one hand push in and out at the top of the tire with the other. If the wheel moves up and down or in and out, the king pins/bushings are worn.
8. If everything above is tight and/or has been replaced/adjusted but the truck still does the drunken monkey, then you may have tire (especially if bias ply), shocks, spring eye bushings and pins that are worn and/or in need of replacement or alignment issues. These trucks are reasonably smooth, tight, easily steered and follow the road if all the components are in good condition.

There is no sound reason to replace the beam axle and springs with an IFS unless you just have money and time to spend (if you have to farm out an IFS install expect a $6- 10 K total bill and the truck out of service for 3- 6 months) and/or you just want to.

PS: DON'T FORGET to remove the C clamps before trying to drive the truck!

 

Your "death wobble" from lane to lane is not uncommon on these older trucks. Most of the time it is not just one thing but a combination. Mine was a badly worn steering box (internal and external), worn spring bushings and pins and an improperly repaired tie rod that had been damaged and mis-repaired by a PO.

AX has given you an excellent guide. It may seem long and complex but follow it to a "T" and don't skip anything. Here are some before and after pictures that may help you understand.


Tip: If your kingpin bushings are worn have someone professionally ream the new ones so the new pins fit properly.

 

hey Guys,

Thanks a bunch AxRacer too,

I'll try to go thru that checklist and see what I come up with.

I did foget to mention 1 thing I read in yalls post that could be part of this as well,

The wife bought me a set of the Firestone Wide Oval's for the truck, i only got 2, they are on the rear and a set of radials up front. It's been that way for a few months now.

I am going to swap those rears out and put all 4 radials on it and see if this has ANYTHING to do with those bias tires. Seems i did notice a bit of 'sway' when I first put em on, but since I've been talking about how I want the truck to look, (rat rod right now) I left em on there, it does look cool but could have a lot to do with the handling.
But I still have the front end pops so it's prob more than just tires.

But yall have given me some items to look at and I sure appreciate it, give me a bit to run thru this stuff and I'll report back soon.

Thanks again guys!

Tom.

 

Mixing bias and radials will usually result in very poor handling. Not recommended at all. Back when radials started coming on the market here in the US, folks would try a couple radials mixed with bias and immediately hated radials.

 

Mixing bias ply and radials is generally a major no no. Worse when the BP are on the front. If you have freeplay in the steering, tires aren't going to matter until you get everything tightened up. Funny thing is after 60 years of use and neglect, it's much more likely it is many/all of the parts that are worn rather than just one. The most difficult and expensive to fix is the steering box, but some looseness can be adjusted out depending on just how much wear it has. The rebuild of the box if needed can be done at home, the issue is the parts are a bit expensive. Petermcl's "clean" picture with the red drag link shows one popular solution: replace the worn steering box with a Toyota truck power steering box, it fits like it was made for it and you'll be glad you did.
The rest of the rebuild is relatively easy to accomplish in the driveway or garage over one or two weekends. Classic Haulers Home - Classic Haulers F-1 Parts should have all the parts you might need. If you don't have one of their catalogs, get one, they're free (a GREAT company to work with, the gals know their stuff and won't "steer" you wrong!) Don't let honing the kingpin bushings worry you, unless you live on the forgotten side of East Armpit you should be able to find a decent size automotive machine shop with a sunnen hone that can align ream them for you. Average cost to do the work is reported to be 30-60.00. You don't need to remove the axle, the bushings are in the spindles the parts that fall off and hit your toe once the kingpins and brake assemblies are removed. You (or even your wife) can easily carry the spindles to the machinist one in each hand. If you don't have a good sized vise to use to remove/install the bushings let the machine shop do that too, will take but a few minutes with their press, so it shouldn't cost much extra.