I couldn't figure out a good subject, but my question is;
From the oil pump, where does the oil go to first, second, third.... And so on.
Does it go from oil pump to oil cooler to filter then engine, or pump, filter, cooler, and then engine.

Does anyone have an issue with their oil temp going above the 220* that the water temp is, and if so, does it make your water temp hot during that heavy towing as well.

Is there any real need for an external air/oil cooler on our trucks that have the water/oil cooler already.

 

They way I understand it:

Oil pickup>lpop ( then it splits in to 2 paths)> HPOP> ingectors> back to pan/

path 2: LPOP> ,oil cooler,filter,bearing gallerys,turbo and piston cooling jets, back to the pan to start the party all over. Not all oil passes through the filter on every trip.

I got this info from a diagram Woodnthings posted years ago on .org.

I really don't believe an additional oil to air cooler for the engine oil would be of any benefit. The oil to water and the seriously honking big cooling system these trucks are born with is more than sufficient.

 

Not my information, but answers your first question.

HEUI - How High-Pressure Oil Injection Systems Work - Diesel Power Magazine


Personally, I do not have a temperature issue, but that is because I do not tow/haul anything.

Whether or not you need something in addition to the stock cooler depends on your conditions. I would suggest, though, that the need for something "extra" would suggest that you may have tube pluggage in the cooler and might need to replace the cooler body.

 

Not saying I'm having an oil temp issue, mostly curious if others notice any temperature trends with high oil temp causing a higher than normal water temp.

The pic of the oil flow on that site f250 posted is enlightening, and implies that the engine gets "cooled" 200degree oil. (Being that the water temp is 200-210 and preheats/cools engine oil to the water temp)

Would it be a benefit to those towing a lot and are experiencing above 220° oil, to get additional cooling. Are there even people who are experiencing high oil temperatures. I think the idi community is to benefit more from this but I was curious if the powerstrokes could use it as well.

 

According to the diagram from alldata the high pressure circuit and low pressure circuit are in parallel, IE: they are fed independently at the same time and both return to the pan

 

Well, what you're asking about could easily have merit. I know that heavy truckers (OTR trucks) sometimes fight high engine oil temperatures. The general guideline in the lube industry (and other chemical process industries) is the for every 10°C (18°F) increase in temperature, reaction rates double, and that means that your engine oil life is cut in half for that same temperature increase.

The above does not mean that you should over-cool your engine oil, though, because that would create a negative impact on oil viscosity and make it harder for your pumps to provide adequate oil flow through the system. An extreme example of this is the cold weather romps that a lot of diesel drivers experience with the 15w40 weight oils, and that's also why the 5w40 oils tend to eliminate those romps... the higher oil viscosity (resistance to flow) of the oil limits its ability to flow through your engine internals.

 

Last time out with our 5th. Wheel, which was last Sept. early Oct. OAT in 90F range I would see oil temps run 220 to 227. Water temps would always stay 10 to 15 degrees lower. When I am running unloaded the oil temps stay right at 220 even with cold outside air temps. I have always wondered if this was a little high? I run Delo 15W-40 year round. It does get the romps every now and then in the winter.
Bill

 

I don't know if the diesel power magazine chart it correct

 

IMO, there could be a use for an extra external oil cooler. There has been a few guys in the past that added external coolers, but if I recall correctly Glenn (Oldbird1965) had a hard time finding an external cooler that was large enough to flow the required volume of oil. He saw like a 10psi (IIRC) increase in oil pressure after adding the cooler, but he did notice a nice decrease in oil temps while towing heavy.

I know that my OBS has always had slightly hotter oil temps than I liked. Even after changing the oil cooler core. With the stock 203* t-stat and stock OBS radiator it would run around 210-215* coolant temp and close to the same for oil temps while cruising down the road @ 70-80mph empty. With 10k lbs cruising at 65mph it would run just over 220* coolant temp and I don't think I ever saw over 220* oil temp. That's hotter than I like, but isn't necessarily a problem.

After I changed to the SD Mishimoto radiator, Flex-a-lite fans, new water pump, and 180* t-stat I saw a drop in coolant temps while cruising empty. Now cruising 70-80mph I see anywhere from 204-210* coolant temps and oil temps usually stay below 207*. With 10k I've seen 217* coolant temp and 212* oil temp. That's the hottest I recall seeing off the top of my head. I've also notice that if I run a tune that runs significantly higher ICP @ low throttle positions, the oil temp will run ~3 or 4 degrees hotter. That comparison is between a tune that cruises at 1200psi vs a tune that cruises at 2000psi.

 

JR,

Have you ever had the fan clutch lock when towing? You would not forget it if you have. Sounds like a mini jet engine under the hood, drowns out the turbo and the radio. When climbing a mountain or steep grade with a heavy trailer the radiator will eventually heat up and throw hot air at the fan clutch. When the air coming through the radiator reaches 205° the fan clutch will fully lock (jet engine sound sending a hurricane worth of air through).

The max RPM of the fan when the clutch is unlocked is 2,000 or less. But when the clutch is locked the max RPM of the fan is 2,850+.

It usually doesn't stay locked long and the first time I heard it was pulling the 5th wheel through the Rockies. I thought I broke something....or a turbo boot blew off but the turbo power was still there.

So, if you are overheating or close to it I would assume you would often hear the large noise associated with the fan clutch locking and pumping that mass of air through.......or there is the possibility of the fan clutch not operating correctly. If you have heard it before - you would remember cuz ya can't miss that sound!

Edit: I have never experienced the fan clutch locking when not towing heavy.

 

Not saying I'm having an oil temp issue, mostly curious if others notice any temperature trends with high oil temp causing a higher than normal water temp.

Would it be a benefit to those towing a lot and are experiencing above 220° oil, to get additional cooling. Are there even people who are experiencing high oil temperatures. I think the idi community is to benefit more from this but I was curious if the powerstrokes could use it as well.

 

Short answer, yes Powerstrokes could use it as well. Yes there are many powerstrokes out there that see 220*+ oil temps while towing. I haven't checked the temps on my SD yet, but I don't expect them to be too terribly cool while towing. If y'all are ok with 220* temps, fine. I'm not ok with those temps.. If nothing else, I wouldn't mind having an external cooler on my OBS since I'll be running a filled block. I'll want all the oil cooling I can get, especially with dual HPOPs..

 

I appreciate your first reply, and I enjoy the "straight to the point" very much. Thanks. You're one of the big contributors to this forum and I appreciate your input.

 

Thank ya sir. I'm kinda interested in what you might be working on. I know these trucks have a pretty good cooling system from the factory, but there's no doubting that the high pressure oil system takes a toll on the oil temps. Trucks running twin pumps and even tow rigs that are staying around 2500-3000psi ICP for extended periods of time while towing will start seeing oil temps rise.. Also, let's not forget the effect that hotter oil has on the volume output of the HPOP... I know that I can see a difference in ICP pressure and duty cycle between 180* oil and 210* oil..

 

Not at all.....just curious on what JR was experiencing to make him think his oil temps where high.

Keep us in the loop JR with your prototype......

In this type situation.... Absolutely. Seen how High ICP programs (3,200+) / dual HPOP's can shear viscosity on UOA reports.