Hello all! As they say, long-time listener, first-time caller. Here's what I have for you:

I have a soft spot for the old bullnose Fords as my Dad had an '81 F100 farm that was the truck I rode around in when I was growing up. It was a barebones regular cab long box 2wd with a 300 six, a three on the tree, and "vent window air conditioning." That truck is long gone (I am sure it rusted out by now as it lived in the heart of the Snow Belt) but I have fond memories of it and would like to do sort of a resto-mod that captures the spirit of it.

My goal is to end up with my interpretation of a classic bullnose farm truck as now I am "all growed up" and would like to share with my own kid the simplicity of a classic, electronic-nothing, good old farm truck. A real farm truck to me always meant a 1 ton dually flatbed rather than a 1/2 ton pickup. FYI, my current ride is an '11 F-150 RCSB 4x4 with the 5.0 V8.

Here's what I would like to have in my bullnose resto-mod:

1. I want to be able to use it as a truck. Most of the fun in having a truck is using it as a truck. The heaviest thing it would do is pull a deckover trailer with farm equipment or hay bales that weighs 14-16k max.

2. I want enough power for the truck to be enjoyable to drive. As a reference point, my Dad's old '98 220 hp 2V 4.6 F-150 was a little poky and my '11 5.0 F-150 has way more than enough power.

3. I'd like for the truck to be a 4x4 or at the very least have the stance of one. I don't particularly care for the "land yacht" low stance of the '70s and '80s 2wd pickups. The current crop of F-150s and Super Duties which are nearly all 4wd are about right.

4. I really like how the current F-450s and F-550s with the 19.5" rims look and would like to have something larger than the "they look squished" 16" rims.

5. I live in corn country and most stations have 105 octane E85 available at approximately 2/3 the price of 87 octane E10. I intend to run a gasser engine on E85 if I get a gasser due to the massive and cheap power potential.

6. I don't give two shakes about fuel mileage. Fuel doesn't really cost that much and I'd gladly trade a few extra dollars per fill-up for more performance.

7. There are safety inspections but no emissions inspections. Technically emissions equipment has to be present but in practice it just means you can't run a straight pipe with an obvious strong constant raw gas smell on a new gasser truck or roll coal all of the time on a new diesel truck. They don't care if a smog pump "fell off" a 30 year old truck with a big "NON-CATALYST" sticker underneath the hood like the bullnose F-250s/350s have.

8. I will have a nice outbuilding to work in but I have minimal fab experience and have never welded before. I do intend to pick up basic MIG welding at some point, so if I need to fab something, I will be able to but it needs to be at a beginner level at first.

9. I would technically have to salvage title a body-swapped vehicle, especially if the frame model year and body model year look different. I don't intend to sell the vehicle so that wouldn't matter. However a body swap would require inspection by the Highway Patrol and a new VIN being given and I'd like to avoid that if possible.

10. I am an engineer by training and can do math, drafting, trig, and such so don't worry about the nitty-gritty parts, I can more than handle it.

I have done a lot of lurking and it seems like one of the rare 4x4 chassis cabs would be what I am looking for, but I have not found one for sale anywhere. So I am wondering what would be my next best route?

1. Try to do a D60 swap on a 2wd truck? That apparently isn't that easy.

2. Swap a bullnose cab onto a later 4x4 C&C frame and just deal with the need to get a second parts truck and the paperwork junk to get a new VIN?

3. Should I go with a highly tuned 1st-gen PSD instead of a stroked E85 460 for pulling a trailer? I would think a 600ish HP 514 BBF should be at least as strong as a drivable 7.3 PSD but I haven't driven either.

Thanks for your input. I am testing the waters as to how I should proceed on this project.

 

So you do not want a pickup, you want a cab and chassis truck? They are not pickups, and can't be made easily into a pickup.

If you did find a pickup, does the above mean you want a dually pickup or a truck with a dually setup?

You said you wanted it simple. And you first mentioned a gas engine. A 460 will do the job and is a good base to start from if you wanted even more power. A powerstroke has a computer and a bunch of wires. A older idi diesel will require a turbo kit if you want any power. The only real reason to run a diesel would be fuel mileage. The 460 is going to be easier to find.

 

I am looking for a cab and chassis, not a pickup. My Dad had a pickup but I want a cab and chassis for a flatbed. The issue that I haven't seen any bullnose generation 4x4 cab and chassis trucks around although they are supposed to exist. (dohc_chump posted a late 1985 Rapid Spec Price List which showed that as an option.) All of the ones I see for sale are 2wd.

The reason I mention the diesels are that most of the small number of bullnose F-350 cab and chassis units for sale around here are IDI diesels. Also, the 4x4 cab and chassis models are rare until the '90s OBS generation. I see quite a few of the OBS ones and it is possible to swap a bullnose body onto one of them if I am not mistaken. Most of the OBS F-350s however are PSDs rather than 460s as few seemed to want the EFI 460. They are also mostly automatics as well and all of them have the rear axle VSS sensor to deal with regardless of transmission type and you can't use a mechanical speedo bullnose dash with them. Plus as you state the PSD is a completely fly by wire engine like my '11's 5.0 and you need the entire ECU/PCM, dash, pedals, and massive wiring harness. However if it was going to be some huge advantage with a tweaked PSD over a 460 other than fuel mileage, I might just do it and easily get the kind of truck I want (4x4 CnC) in the process. Lots of people fawn over diesels and like I said, I don't have much experience with diesels in trucks so I can't really say much about them.

So in short, I just want to try to figure out the best way to get a bullnose 4x4 F-350 cab and chassis with a powerful engine and a stick as they seem to be impossible to find. That's why I am trying to plot out the best course to take and give myself plenty of time to do so. I do not currently have anything purchased so I am starting with a completely blank slate.

 

Ok, you are having trouble finding what you want, so you might have to build it.

If all you want is a flatbed, you do not have to get a cab and chassis. You could get a dually pickup and take the bed off and build a flatbed just as easily. The cab and chassis was a little bit heavier built truck, and the frame from the cab rearward was different, it was narrower, and narrow rear leaf springs and the rearend was narrower. I believe all that was to accommodate standard aftermarket beds like dumps, wreckers, roll-backs, etc.

So if you found another dually pickup, of course it would be 2wd. It will be like a chess game. A dually pickup will be 2wd drive, and if it was a 86, down, you could find the frontend out of a later cab and chassis. You could then use a kit from sky manufacturing to install the dana 60 dually type frontend under the earlier 2wd pickup, people do it all the time. This would also give you about a 3 inch lift. You would still have to round up a 4x4 tranny and transfer case. A SRW dana 60 frontend can also be converted if the dually rotors and hubs are installed from a cab and chassis truck.

Or you could get a early f350 4x4 single rear wheel pickup. Find a dually rearend and bolt underneath it, and put a dana 60 with the dually fronts under it, That all would be a bolt in affair and you would already have the tranny and transfer case under it. Just be aware like I said before, the cab and chassis rearend will not fit under any type of pickup frame, but the dually pickup rearend will. And if you wanted to do it in stages, and your early f350 had the dana 50 ttb, it can also be converted to dually wheels using the cab and chassis rotors and hubs. You could do that and then later install the dana 60.

I would still stick with the 460. A simple aftermarket 4bbl setup without all the smog will give you lots of power when you need it. And it will be easy to work on.

 

Get an F-250/350 4x4, throw a carbed 460 in it, toss on 33's and be done with it.

 

Aha. I was under the impression that you were supposed to have a cab and chassis to put a flatbed on because the frame rails were the "correct" 34" wide and the frame is completely flat vs. the 37.5" (IIRC) width of the pickup frame which has the "humps" in the frame over the axle. Not absolutely requiring a cab and chassis' narrow frame does open up a lot of possibilities.

Don't the 4x4 versions of the heavy duty F-250s (8600# GVWR) the F-350 pickups share the same frame? I seem to remember seeing that and 4x4 F-250 HDs aren't too rare like 350 4x4s. If the frame is the same, then it would be a simple affair to end up with a dually flatbed by buying an F-250 4x4 and then swapping in a D60 front from an F-350 4x4, dually front rotors from a cab and chassis, and a dually pickup rear.

Sounds good. I suppose the one decision I really have left with regards to the engine is exactly how much compression I really want to run and exactly what fuel (how much alcohol/octane) I want to commit myself to running it on.

 

Yes, the f250 would work fine as a starting point. My local body builder in my area even sells metal flatbeds for f150's. I checked years ago when I had my old f150 and it was going to be about $750 installed, and for a little bit extra they sold these plates to bolt to the side of the bed/frame to give it a finished off look.

The big thing I keep hearing about the 460 is installing a new straight up timing chain set. Keep the compression conservative if you want to use 87 octane fuel.

 

I've done a lot of looking and research and have made a few tweaks to my project. I'll get a 2wd DRW F-350 and not actually do much to it:

- I figure I should be fine with a 2wd truck. I have paid attention to just how much (little) I use 4wd in my DD '11 F-150 and I have used it a grand total of twice since my last post in October. Once was during the first snow of the season just to keep the TC lubed and the second was because I wanted to gun it to beat a left-turn light and got just a touch of slip in 2wd. Note this is in South Dakota where it snows much more than in my home state of MO where I will have my F-350 Bullnose project. My Dad's '81 F100 I am basing this project off of was 2wd and he drove it in lake-effect snow in Wisconsin without trouble so I should be more than fine.

- I think that most of the low-slung appearance from a 2wd F-350 is due to sag from old fatigued front coil springs and rotted out cab mounts. I looked at a lot of trucks both "original" and after some TLC and 2wds with new springs and bushings looked just about right. The worst thing I'd do is lift it an inch which according to posts in the FTE Forums is perfectly sane and still able to be aligned.

- I'll run the truck most likely on 91 octane gasoline and skip the E85. The huge compression ratios for E85 are appealing but the cold weather performance of E85 sucks. My heavily computerized, fuel-injected '11 F-150 has trouble starting below freezing on that fuel, let alone a carbed vehicle. However that F-150 started like it was 80 degrees out with nary an extra crank when it was -24 F earlier this week using E10 gasoline. 91 octane is only ~10% more expensive than 87 octane pee-water and available everywhere (unlike E85) so that's what I'll use.

- I'll get a 460/4-speed and not change that a whole lot. I'll put a 4.3" stroker crank in the 460 to get it to 514 cid, put a "towing" cam in there, change the carb to something adjustable (700-800 cfm Holley 4180 or Edelbrock 1406), change the pistons to bump the CR to something suitable for 91 octane, have a free-flowing single exhaust and then call it good. The emissions equipment won't be that big of a deal as EGR and the smog pump doesn't really sap power. There won't be issues with passing the inspection which is visual-only if I don't actually modify any emissions equipment I also realized that running a little higher RPM without OD isn't too horrible and actually worlds better than my current '11 F-150 with the "race to the double-overdrive 6th gear by 40 mph" 6R80 which I often find myself locking out gears with in-town driving. All the lack of OD does is cost a little more in gas on the highway which I couldn't care too much about. I'd rather have the power, else I'd have a 100 hp Prius as a DD instead of a nearly 400 hp V8 F-150.

- For wheels I'll use 6.0x19.5 Accuride 29015s (originally for GM P30 chip/bread trucks) with 225/70R19.5s. These wheels have the classic 5-hand-hold holes which looks appropriate on the old Bullnoses. The wheels are also cheap at ~$110 each brand new. These wheels with the 225 tires look a touch small on the current F-450s/550s with the massive wheel openings but the few Bullnoses I've seen with these wheels/tires look just about perfect. I'll just have to have the center machined out a touch from 4.60" to 4.86" which others have had done with no issues at all and then they are a direct bolt-on affair.

So in essence all I'll have to do is buy a bullnose flatbed '83-86 DRW F-350 with a 460 and a 4-speed, stroke the engine and warm it up a bit, swap the wheels out for the Accuride 19.5s, and clean it up. That shouldn't be too bad. A 2wd F350 with a 460 and a 4-speed is probably the most common Bullnose F-350 for sale now so I should be able to get a decent one without issues or needing to look too hard for it.

I guess the next question I have for you guys is how large should my outbuilding be to accommodate my workshop? I will be moving from SD back home to MO and living out on some property. My very lovely wife has said she'll accommodate my request that I have a nice outbuilding on the property to fiddle around in. I am thinking 40x60x15 with three garage doors, a concrete floor, insulation, and 200 amps of subpanel (I have woodworking equipment too which is all 240 volts). Would you suggest bigger or any particular features I should have?

 

I wish I had a building that big. Mine is only 24x30 with a 20x30 lean-to on the side of it with no concrete under the lean-to.

If you come across a 460/z5 5 speed out of a later pickup(around 88-up I think) I would jump on it. If you are going to do a lot of highway driving, keeping the rpms down makes the truck a lot quieter, and it reduces engine wear, besides giving you better fuel mileage. It's really nice, I put one in my truck. It's not like the 4 speeds, the bellhousing is part of the tranny case, so you have to get one for a 460.

 

I don't have a building yet. I am looking for a new house out of town and some of them come with buildings. Most of the buildings are 30x50 or 40x60- just wanted to know if that would be big enough or if I should figure in the cost of putting in a larger building into the overall budget.

I might do that as it has crossed my mind. The worries I have about a ZF5 are its strength and the dual-mass flywheel. If I read correctly a 460 pattern ZF5 is the ZF S5-42 rated for only 420 ft-lb torque. (Makes sense, the 460 was rated below 400 ft-lb when it sat in front of a ZF5 from the factory.) A decent 514 stroker will have probably 50% more than that and I do intend to tow with the truck on occasion. There is also a lot of griping here about the expensive dual-mass flywheel in the ZF5, its propensity to expensively self-destruct when the damper springs wear out, and the controversial and apparently somewhat hackish and noisy way to put a single-mass flywheel in its place. Nobody here seems to complain about the T-19 except for the lack of an overdrive gear. I cannot find its torque rating, nor that of the nearly identical T18, but the general consensus appears to be that the T19 is a lot stronger than the ZF5.

 

Will a stock 460 run strong ethanol gas without issues?
I remember some of the changes to the e85 motors being special coatings and materials used to reduce damage from moisture in the engine.

 

The 460's as far as I know, do not use the dual mass flywheel. Only the diesels use it, because they hit so hard when the engine fires. You should be good there.

The zf is plenty strong, there are guys that use them on turned up diesels to haul lots of weight, and they are holding up good. The only little problem they have is reverse, they don't like to go in sometimes all the way, and then they make this terrible scraping noise. It's some sort of wear problem with the reverse gear or something, mine does it. But I have found all you have to do is keep some pressure on the lever while you are letting out on the clutch, and if it's not in all the way, the lever will go ahead and go in as you keep a little pressure on the shifter and let out on the clutch at the same time. It's easy to get used to.

If you want to go this route, you may want to just get the tranny, I believe if you get too late with the 460's, they went to fuel injection and somehow they changed the heads around, and a carbed intake won't fit the fuel injection heads. But, the later engine may be in better shape, and if you want to put some aftermarket heads on it, you would be good to go to change to a carb system.

 

@Parkland
You do have to change the fuel system to be able to run high alcohol contents. That includes the carb, fuel lines, fuel pump, and rarely the tank. The big ones are the carb and the fuel pump as those parts need to specifically be designed for alcohol or otherwise they won't work. Most fuel lines made today are actually fine with alcohol so as long as you redo all the lines you are most likely fine. I have decided to run 91 octane gasoline due to the somewhat spotty availability of E85, which is a big issue with an engine getting maybe 10 mpg on a good day. E85 also has pretty poor cold-weather starting characteristics and that would be even worse with a carb. It was an interesting thought but I should be able to make stupid power even with only 91 octane since I plan to stroke the engine to 514-520 cid with a 4.3" stroker crank. A fairly sane-looking 514 setup I saw online with 10.5:1 compression, a towing cam, and a 750 cfm carb made 530 hp at 4900 rpm and 665 ft-lb torque at 2500 rpm on 91 octane.

@Franklin2
Thanks for the information about the 460's ZF5. Much of the discussion out there is about the diesel ZF5s as the diesel guys often need the overdrive gear in the ZF5 to be able to drive at interstate speeds. That's the context in which I heard most of the ZF5 discussion occurring.

I also remember that the ZF5 is a little longer than the T19 so I would grab the driveshaft with it as well if I decide to swap transmissions. I would have to get one from a bricknose unless I wanted to completely gut the instrument panel and put in a new speedometer. Ford went from a mechanical speedometer in the 1991 and older trucks to electronic using a tone ring in the transfer case or differential in 1992 and apparently the 1992-up ZF5s lack the speedometer gear.

 

I thought also that some parts in the engine were slightly different composition, like bearings and stuff were more resilient to moisture.

 

If you want a F350 cab-n-chassi flat bed dually, then buy one.

It is NOt like they are rare. Hell, I have 3 of them in my yard right now

you don't care about fuel economy,,, so go with a Big Block 460

you want a "truck" so get a stick.

I don't know how bad the rust problem is where you are, but here finding a 80-86 truck is like finding a needed in a hay stack, no less something that actually has something left to work with.

if I were you, I would look for a 88-97 f350 4wd cab-n-chassis 460 5speed.
they are ALOT cheaper than a diesel AND you can easily put a 80-86 nose on it